Re-post of a very popular article:
Very Interesting Testimony:
http://scamadvocates.com/1306-Amway-and-BWW.html
I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this.
The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire.
On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were. He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality.
At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years in fact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there.
They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.
I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to.
I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year.
To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link.
I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given.
Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists.
After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM.
If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.
If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business.
Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.
Wednesday, August 16, 2017
Tuesday, July 12, 2016
Amway The Negative Sum Game?
To explain my blogpost, I will explain a zero sum game. A zero sum game is like a poker game. Say that you have 5 poker players who each bring $100 to a poker game. At the end of the nite, one player may go home with the $500 and the rest broke, or they may all go home even with $100 or other variations. But in any scenario, the total sum of cash the players take home will equal $500. A negative sum game would be perhaps a poker game where each player for example, pays $10 to "the house" before playing, thus the game with 5 players would have the house taking in $50 and the players competing for the remaining $450. In this second scenario, it is possible for all five players to leave the game with less than the $100 they initally came to the game with.
In the Amway global business, the business is run much like a negative sum game with Amway and the AMO's being "the house". Except in this game, Amway and the AMOs get most of the money and fewer than 1% of all IBOs being the "winners". Amway benefits from the IBOs who are taught to consume their 100 PV which is about $300 a month in sale for Amway, and the AMOs make their money by selling motivational materials such as seminars and cds. In Amway's case, at least an IBO might be able to return a portion of their goods for a refund, or they may be able to sell or use their products. In the AMO's case, most IBOs do not succeed as a reult of the tools, and the tools are virtually worthless outside of Amway, despite the fact that IBOs claim the tools teach them valuable principles. This is evidenced by the tools being sold, literally for pennies on Ebay or Craig's List.
In virtually every group scenario you can illustrate, the group as a whole will suffer losses because their sales do not cover the cost of overhead, and do not even cover the cost of the IBO's personal use items. IBOs need their jobs to continue to fund their purchase of Amway products and system tools. It is very very rare that you will encounter an IBO who sells enough product to cover his/her expenses and this is evidenced by Amway's own numbers that less than 4% of good are sold to non IBOs.
My conclusion based on the evidence is that the Amway Opportunity is a negative sum game where IBOs and IBO's jobs make Amway and certain select AMO leaders wealthy while the IBO population lives in poverty while thinking they are successful.
In the Amway global business, the business is run much like a negative sum game with Amway and the AMO's being "the house". Except in this game, Amway and the AMOs get most of the money and fewer than 1% of all IBOs being the "winners". Amway benefits from the IBOs who are taught to consume their 100 PV which is about $300 a month in sale for Amway, and the AMOs make their money by selling motivational materials such as seminars and cds. In Amway's case, at least an IBO might be able to return a portion of their goods for a refund, or they may be able to sell or use their products. In the AMO's case, most IBOs do not succeed as a reult of the tools, and the tools are virtually worthless outside of Amway, despite the fact that IBOs claim the tools teach them valuable principles. This is evidenced by the tools being sold, literally for pennies on Ebay or Craig's List.
In virtually every group scenario you can illustrate, the group as a whole will suffer losses because their sales do not cover the cost of overhead, and do not even cover the cost of the IBO's personal use items. IBOs need their jobs to continue to fund their purchase of Amway products and system tools. It is very very rare that you will encounter an IBO who sells enough product to cover his/her expenses and this is evidenced by Amway's own numbers that less than 4% of good are sold to non IBOs.
My conclusion based on the evidence is that the Amway Opportunity is a negative sum game where IBOs and IBO's jobs make Amway and certain select AMO leaders wealthy while the IBO population lives in poverty while thinking they are successful.
Monday, May 12, 2014
Amway's Latest Lawsuit?
Interesting article:
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/05/amways-latest-lawsuit/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=amways-latest-lawsuit
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/05/amways-latest-lawsuit/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=amways-latest-lawsuit
CONSUMER PRODUCTS, MONEY-MAKING SCHEMES
Amway’s latest lawsuit
by Sharon Hill • May 12, 2014 • 0 Comments
Amway, one of the world’s biggest multi-level marketing companies, is in court again.
Amway’s Claims Are Malarkey, Distributors Say.
The world’s largest Amway distributors expanded their business from Taiwan into Chinese communities in the United States, defrauding their new clients with promises of “enormous profits,” nine Amway sellers claim in court.
Lead plaintiff Longsheng Lei and eight other of the self-described “most successful distributors in the entire Amway organization” sued Amway and husband-and-wife Amway distributors Barry Chi and Holly Chen in Superior Court. They allege breach of contract, fraud, false advertising, unfair competition, unjust enrichment, conversion and negligent misrepresentation.
Barry Chi and Holly Chen are named as the most successful Amway distributors in the world. The plaintiffs allege they were persuaded to attend the Chen’s seminars to become “independent business owners” where they were promised enormous profit. But, claim the plaintiffs, these distributors know that most of the new Amway sign-ons make $100-200 a month. Not enough to live on.
It’s rather messy. Amway certainly does recruit distributors with descriptions of big income. (I can attest to this from personal involvement long ago.) They have been accused of running a pyramid scheme where the emphasis is on recruitment rather than selling a product.
There has been a HISTORY of suits. They have had their wrists slapped but the structure is still going strong. Be wise if you are approached by recruiters. Know exactly what you are getting into.
Did you know that Amway distributors were accused of propagating the Proctor and Gamble satanic symbol legend? Procter & Gamble alleged that several Amway distributors were behind a resurgence of the urban legend in the 1990s (probably to benefit their own sales bottom line) resulting in a suit for defamation and slander. Procter & Gamble was awarded $19.25M by a jury from this case.
It’s hard to say how this current suit will play out.
With all the bad connotations and shadiness behind Amway, they have a fair share of detractors. You can read more about it here.
Amway. Quiztar, TEAM, Team of Destiny, Network 21 – The Skeptic’s Dictionary.
It IS a multi-level marketing plan and that is bad news for most participants who remain on the bottom.
Analysis: Amway Accused of Fraud; Pays $150 Million; Where’s the FTC and DOJ? | Pyramid Scheme Alert.
Amway – The Dream Or The Scheme?.
Tuesday, June 18, 2013
Amway IBO Lies?
In my personal experience and even now, I see evidence from IBOs that lying is still a big part of the script for those who are recruiting new IBOs. A business built on lies is a house built on a shaky foundation.
If your upline has lied, did you simply ignore and overlook it? Did you see slide shows of wealth as "proof" that Amway works? Do you know if your upline actually owns any of that stuff and is it typical or simply some exceptional diamond who has trappings but tries to imply that alll diamonds and big pins have all of those goodies?
Some of the lies:
We don't make any money until you do
We don't make money from tools
Save 30% by becoming an IBO
The business is easy
All you need is six
Diamonds pay cash for everything
Jobs are for losers
98% for people are dead or broke by age 65
95% of small businesses fail in the first year
**Have you heard any of these statements? Have you been fed lies or half truths (lies)?
If these statements sounds familiar, it may be a red flag for you. I urge you to at least verify any questionable claims made by upline or by those recruiting you into the business. Get bonafide proof of financial success. While uplines may say it's not your business, it certainly is if you are being asked to trust the upline leadership and to follow their advice. You should know how successful your uplines are and whether or not following them is indeed worth your time, investment and efforts. If your upline dodge your questions, you should think twice.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Whatever Happened To "Anonymous From Canada"?
There used to be an anonymous from Scarborough Canada who used to entertain me and my blog audience with his antics. Here's a reprint of a previous post in his honor. I hope he didn't quit Amway and become a broke loser. :)
Some of my regular readers here knows that there's an anonymous cowardly blogger from Scarborough Ontario Canada who has left threats and insults on my blog almost ad nauseum. I gave him my contact information but he was too chicken to contact me. He is apparently a low level IBO who has a entry level job in a bank. Here's a humorous set of comments he recently left ony my blog. Enjoy!
Anonymous said: "That's why you didn't make the kind of money you were hoping to make. When I registered a thought came to my mind quite early on; instead of me finding 6 people who find 4 who find 2 each, why don't I just find one person who will find 6 people who find 4 who find 2 each? After-all, I still get 7500 PV and 50K/year!!! Sadly, as I found out, in doing so, I would net out only about $700/month instead of $5700/month. Structure is the key baby! BIG DIFFERENCE! So, I got serious about it and went for my 6 people! Did it all go just as advertised? No, but I earn a good $4000-4500 per month. Do I plan to stop here? No! I plan to go 100K/year by December 2011. So remember, business structure is vital for profitability. Stop whining and get to work!"
Anonymous said: "My Amway expenses are WAY FAR from wiping out my monthly Amway earnings. Or are you referring to my general, every day expenses? If yes, then there really is nothing to argue about. The same can be said about anyone whose job income also equals my Amway monthly income. For your information, I make almost twice as much from Amway than any other job I ever had."
Anonymous said: "Buddy Joe, my J.O.B was from 9 in the morning till 6 in the evening, Monday to Friday, working as a customer service representative. I was making about $2360/month. So don't you think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, $4000/month from Amway isn't a little bit, JUST A TINY LITTLE BIT, MORE than $2360? So what if I earn $4000/month you ask? Buddy Joe, I think that you're aware of $4000 figure being TOO REAL TO YOU, it's just that you were nowhere near that and now you're bitter about it. Why am I there and you aren't? Don't know and don't want to know. All I see is your bitterness and complacency. So shut up!"
Joe's commentary: So my anonymous friend in making $4000 a month from Amway? Of course he provides no evidence and not even an anecdotal explanation of how he makes $4000 a month. Of course, $4000 a month isn't much when you still have to pay for medical insurance and your other business expenses. Not to mention, I earn a lot more than that from my job. But anon from Canada, thanks for your entertaining tirades! I truly enjoy what you add to my blog! :-)
Some of my regular readers here knows that there's an anonymous cowardly blogger from Scarborough Ontario Canada who has left threats and insults on my blog almost ad nauseum. I gave him my contact information but he was too chicken to contact me. He is apparently a low level IBO who has a entry level job in a bank. Here's a humorous set of comments he recently left ony my blog. Enjoy!
Anonymous said: "That's why you didn't make the kind of money you were hoping to make. When I registered a thought came to my mind quite early on; instead of me finding 6 people who find 4 who find 2 each, why don't I just find one person who will find 6 people who find 4 who find 2 each? After-all, I still get 7500 PV and 50K/year!!! Sadly, as I found out, in doing so, I would net out only about $700/month instead of $5700/month. Structure is the key baby! BIG DIFFERENCE! So, I got serious about it and went for my 6 people! Did it all go just as advertised? No, but I earn a good $4000-4500 per month. Do I plan to stop here? No! I plan to go 100K/year by December 2011. So remember, business structure is vital for profitability. Stop whining and get to work!"
Anonymous said: "My Amway expenses are WAY FAR from wiping out my monthly Amway earnings. Or are you referring to my general, every day expenses? If yes, then there really is nothing to argue about. The same can be said about anyone whose job income also equals my Amway monthly income. For your information, I make almost twice as much from Amway than any other job I ever had."
Anonymous said: "Buddy Joe, my J.O.B was from 9 in the morning till 6 in the evening, Monday to Friday, working as a customer service representative. I was making about $2360/month. So don't you think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, $4000/month from Amway isn't a little bit, JUST A TINY LITTLE BIT, MORE than $2360? So what if I earn $4000/month you ask? Buddy Joe, I think that you're aware of $4000 figure being TOO REAL TO YOU, it's just that you were nowhere near that and now you're bitter about it. Why am I there and you aren't? Don't know and don't want to know. All I see is your bitterness and complacency. So shut up!"
Joe's commentary: So my anonymous friend in making $4000 a month from Amway? Of course he provides no evidence and not even an anecdotal explanation of how he makes $4000 a month. Of course, $4000 a month isn't much when you still have to pay for medical insurance and your other business expenses. Not to mention, I earn a lot more than that from my job. But anon from Canada, thanks for your entertaining tirades! I truly enjoy what you add to my blog! :-)
Tuesday, February 5, 2013
Going Broke In Amway?
Many people join the Amway business because they believe that they will get rich in doing so. Upline will tell their audiences that they will not "get rich quick". I believe they do this as a disclaimer so that people don't believe this is some scam that is too good to be true. Obviously, many people have the idea that they will evnetually get rich if they will only follow upline advice and do what they are told. On the surface, the Amway presentation looks reasonable and makes sense. Basically, it is sold as make money and save money. Sound easy enough and who wouldn't want to make money, save money, or both?
But what's not told to prospects up front is that in order to work the system, you will need to be a leader and a good example for your downline to duplicate. Thus you will be expected to move at least 100 PV each month. 100 PV costs about $300 a month and a leader or serious IBO will be expected to be on voicemail, standing order, and book of the month, as well as attending functions which may include out of town conventions requiring airfare and other trave; expenses. I believe the average dedicated IBO would spend between $200 and $300 a month on average, on these tools. Thus an average business building IBO will spend about $500 to $600 a month in order to become a business building IBO.
$500 or $600 a month in expenses might seem reasonable for a business owner, except that you were likely told that the Amway business has little or no expenses. What would you have said if you were told upfront that you needed to come up with $6000 to $7000 annually to participate in Amway? Sure, you get some products with that expense, but more than likely you will also end up with many products you may not need, nor would you have used some of these products if not for your involvement in Amway.
Typically, IBOs don't last for long, but a bunch of IBOs do put in a few years of earnest effort before they realize that Amway is not going to deliver their dreams. After 2-3 years, it's possible that you may have "invested" over $20,000. If you are under 30 years of age, do you realize what $20,000 invested can do over the span of say, 30 years when you would likely retire from work? Even if you didn't invest it, couldn't that $20,000 fulfill some of your dreams? A new car, a dream vacation, maybe a down payment on real estate? Sadly, many uplines will lure eager young people into the Amway business and their seperate tool business. They will con them into giving up their resources so they can chase a dream that won't materialize.
Then when the IBO wakes up and quits, they are shunned and labeled a loser or a quitter.
IBOs and prospects often think they will get rich in Amway. But for most, especially those caught up the the teaching systems, they are far more likely to go broke fast.
Monday, November 19, 2012
Amway Versus Joining The Gym?
One of the feeble defenses I have heard from Amway apologists is a comparison of the Amway opportunity to a gym membership. The defense is that you have to do something to get results. On that point, I agree. Except the comparison is ridiculous as a gym is not a business opportunity. A gym membership is a product/service that one can purchase. It seems that many Amway defenders so deperately want to justify their positions that they come up with silly comparisons. Gym owners don't care if you sign up and do nothing, just as upline leaders don't care if you succeed, as long as you keep buying tools from them. A gym owner could not sustain his business if everyone actually worked out every day, and a diamond leader probably doesn't want a lot of new pins breaking because it would take away tool profits.
If the Amway oportunity was compared to a gym owner, wouldn't that be a better comparion? On that point, if you were recruited to be a gym owner, wouldn't you demand to know how other gyms are doing financially? Wouldn't you want to know the likelihood of success if you were to open a gym? Wouldn't you need to know about operating expenses and potential income before you even thinking about buying a gym?
What if you were told that maybe only 9 or 10 out of 10,000 gym owners make enough income to live on? If more than half of the gyms went out of business in their first year, would you still be interested? If the greater majority of gym owners lost money, would you still be interested? If the majority of gym owners lost money, and many lost lots of money, would that interest you?
Wouldn't any investor with an ounce of business savvy look at this gym opportunity and run in the opposite direction? The fact that Amway defenders like IBOFightback use this weak and feeble defense shows just how desperate they have become. They have no defense against facts so they resort to weak anecdotal stories with no basis in reality. It may be why the Amway business appears to be shrinking in the US. The truth cannot be hidden any longer.
Monday, August 6, 2012
Is Lying Important To IBOs?
One of the things that got me upset after I left the Amway business was the amount of lies and deceit used to attract IBOs, and to keep them in the business. My first encounter with the Amway business was being invited to a beer bust that was actually an open board plan at someone's house. I later attended a meeting and eventually sign up when a very good friend of mine had gotten in and had qualified as Gold Direct (at that time).
As an IBO, I was told that NOBODY made profits from tools. I was also told that WWDB was a non profit organization. Both were lies and to date, as far as I know, not a single WWDB leader has been held accountable for these lies. Other questionable statements were "we don't make pennies until you make dollars", and that upline truly cared about us, and that's why they put on functions. At the time, nobody really knew that some uplines might have been making a living off tools and not from Amway.
Things changed a bit later, with the advent of Quixtar, but then more lies came from many IBOs, such as Quixtar is not Amway and is not even related in anyway. Seems that tricking people into meetings has never changed over the years and still occurs today. There are pockets of IBOs who are ethical, but they are the exception and not the rule. We also saw the perfect water fiasco where IBOs were selling $48 cases of water that allegedly had magical powers, only to find out it was mostly a hoax and Amway finally stepped in to stop some of the wild claims.
The there's the age old lies told about IBO income. I recently had a conversation by email with an IBO who swore that he made $1000 a month from Amway and he said he would shut me up by sending me a PDF copy of his check. Well, none came and he blocked me from contacting him. Now I don't doubt that people can earn $1000 a month from Amway, but the cost will be a bunch of downline to eat losses so you can earn that magical check. Trying to get a straight answer about income from most IBOs is like decpihering hyroglyphics at times.
If you are usinng deception as part of your recruitment process or using other deceptive practices, then you may ask yourself what your prospect will think if and when they discover the truth? This may be why Amway IBOs drop out like flies, where more than 60% of IBOs drop out the first year. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg by the way, I may have to do a follow up blog post to cover more on this interesting topic.
As an IBO, I was told that NOBODY made profits from tools. I was also told that WWDB was a non profit organization. Both were lies and to date, as far as I know, not a single WWDB leader has been held accountable for these lies. Other questionable statements were "we don't make pennies until you make dollars", and that upline truly cared about us, and that's why they put on functions. At the time, nobody really knew that some uplines might have been making a living off tools and not from Amway.
Things changed a bit later, with the advent of Quixtar, but then more lies came from many IBOs, such as Quixtar is not Amway and is not even related in anyway. Seems that tricking people into meetings has never changed over the years and still occurs today. There are pockets of IBOs who are ethical, but they are the exception and not the rule. We also saw the perfect water fiasco where IBOs were selling $48 cases of water that allegedly had magical powers, only to find out it was mostly a hoax and Amway finally stepped in to stop some of the wild claims.
The there's the age old lies told about IBO income. I recently had a conversation by email with an IBO who swore that he made $1000 a month from Amway and he said he would shut me up by sending me a PDF copy of his check. Well, none came and he blocked me from contacting him. Now I don't doubt that people can earn $1000 a month from Amway, but the cost will be a bunch of downline to eat losses so you can earn that magical check. Trying to get a straight answer about income from most IBOs is like decpihering hyroglyphics at times.
If you are usinng deception as part of your recruitment process or using other deceptive practices, then you may ask yourself what your prospect will think if and when they discover the truth? This may be why Amway IBOs drop out like flies, where more than 60% of IBOs drop out the first year. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg by the way, I may have to do a follow up blog post to cover more on this interesting topic.
Wednesday, May 30, 2012
3-5 Years, 250K?
http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html
Saw this comment on the scam advocate blog:
Other January 12 2012 I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this. The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire. On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were.
He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality. At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years infact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there. They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.
I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to. I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year. To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link. I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given. Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists. After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM. If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.
If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business. Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.
Saw this comment on the scam advocate blog:
Other January 12 2012 I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this. The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire. On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were.
He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality. At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years infact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there. They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.
I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to. I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year. To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link. I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given. Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists. After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM. If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.
If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business. Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.
Friday, May 18, 2012
Testimonial Of Someone Recruited By An Amwayer?
A recent testimonial of someone recruited by an Amwayer:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34549583&postcount=1
I just got back from a seminar after a mutual friend suggested that if I wanted to make some extra cash after my other jobs I should come to it. I tried asking what I would be doing and basically he kept saying that it's hard to say over the phone or in person and that it's best for the speaker at the seminar to let me in on everything. That was my first red flag. He kept alluding to marketing, but then would stop himself from going further.
When I got to the presentation a man came on stage and for about an hour he kept stating that this is no pyramid scheme and that in 4 years time you'd be able to retire from your other jobs and be this guy making six figures selling shampoos and making money off of your sponsees.
I came out of it feeling really skeptical about the whole thing. I did some research and I've read about how a lot of people lose money from the whole thing and I was wondering if anyone from GAF was ever involved with Amway or anything similar? Anyone have any good stories about MLM schemes?
EDIT:
2 of my ex-teammates seemed to have been suckered in. I'm going to just let them figure it out for themselves.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34549583&postcount=1
I just got back from a seminar after a mutual friend suggested that if I wanted to make some extra cash after my other jobs I should come to it. I tried asking what I would be doing and basically he kept saying that it's hard to say over the phone or in person and that it's best for the speaker at the seminar to let me in on everything. That was my first red flag. He kept alluding to marketing, but then would stop himself from going further.
When I got to the presentation a man came on stage and for about an hour he kept stating that this is no pyramid scheme and that in 4 years time you'd be able to retire from your other jobs and be this guy making six figures selling shampoos and making money off of your sponsees.
I came out of it feeling really skeptical about the whole thing. I did some research and I've read about how a lot of people lose money from the whole thing and I was wondering if anyone from GAF was ever involved with Amway or anything similar? Anyone have any good stories about MLM schemes?
EDIT:
2 of my ex-teammates seemed to have been suckered in. I'm going to just let them figure it out for themselves.
Tuesday, April 24, 2012
Amway Prospecting?
Here's an email I received from an IBO who tried to prospect me a while ago. Enjoy!
Hi,
Question Have you heard of Amway? This is an 10 billion dollar company, it has helped millions of people become millionaires. Now this business is not a get rich quick scheme, not all, this is a business in which dedication and effort is put into. I don't know if you know but alot of business holders put alot of time into their business and do you know that before they actually see any money come in (profit) it normally takes 1-3 yrs. As for this business you see profit in your first month. This is an E-Commerce business . Tell you what..I'm gonna give you some websites to look us up and you decide on whether you think this is for you. Websites: www.Amway.com; www.bww.com; www.thisbiznow.com; you could even look us up in the better business bureau, we are one of the biggest company that owe no money to the government, that tells you alot of the type of company that we dealing with above all we are 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Also keep in mind alot of us put 4 yrs or more of our life into education or our jobs and 90% percent of the time we don't end up doing what we went to school for or we end up putting up with a lot of issues and stress at work. Right? All we ask if that you take a shot at this business and you will see a lot of great things happening. I know I have. This business is for everyone, you don't even need a diploma or anything of that kind. As long as you are willing to listen and let yourself be guided then you can become a Business Owner. If you want to further discuss this you can call me at 347-xxx-xxxx. I look forward to hearing from you.
P.S Check my facebook page out, look at the album "FED 2010" that was this weekend that past..all those people you see in the picture are Independent Business Owners. On some of them I wrote the word "Diamond" that means that those particular people make 6'figures every year. We all can achieve that goal you just have to have faith and persarverance to achieve that. I know that's what we want and we are gonna get there. Wouldn't it be good to fire your boss and you become your own boss or as they say the "captain of the ship" .
Hi,
Question Have you heard of Amway? This is an 10 billion dollar company, it has helped millions of people become millionaires. Now this business is not a get rich quick scheme, not all, this is a business in which dedication and effort is put into. I don't know if you know but alot of business holders put alot of time into their business and do you know that before they actually see any money come in (profit) it normally takes 1-3 yrs. As for this business you see profit in your first month. This is an E-Commerce business . Tell you what..I'm gonna give you some websites to look us up and you decide on whether you think this is for you. Websites: www.Amway.com; www.bww.com; www.thisbiznow.com; you could even look us up in the better business bureau, we are one of the biggest company that owe no money to the government, that tells you alot of the type of company that we dealing with above all we are 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Also keep in mind alot of us put 4 yrs or more of our life into education or our jobs and 90% percent of the time we don't end up doing what we went to school for or we end up putting up with a lot of issues and stress at work. Right? All we ask if that you take a shot at this business and you will see a lot of great things happening. I know I have. This business is for everyone, you don't even need a diploma or anything of that kind. As long as you are willing to listen and let yourself be guided then you can become a Business Owner. If you want to further discuss this you can call me at 347-xxx-xxxx. I look forward to hearing from you.
P.S Check my facebook page out, look at the album "FED 2010" that was this weekend that past..all those people you see in the picture are Independent Business Owners. On some of them I wrote the word "Diamond" that means that those particular people make 6'figures every year. We all can achieve that goal you just have to have faith and persarverance to achieve that. I know that's what we want and we are gonna get there. Wouldn't it be good to fire your boss and you become your own boss or as they say the "captain of the ship" .
Monday, April 9, 2012
Amway Testimony - Lying?
http://lukehimself.net/?p=135&cpage=20#comment-6333
Cayetano says: 6th April, 2012 at 1:59am
I was lied into it. Empty promises. My upline told me I’ll be able to make $500 in 6 months. Instead, I’m going to make $15 my first month. How is attending meetings weekly with a 30 minute drive and 30 minutes back with gas going up, selling expensive products which my friends all told me it’s too hard to sell, and getting brainwashed by motivational CD’s my upline hand me goin to make me achieve my goal? He lied me into it and I realized this when he told me “If you need to sponsor someone, label me as your senior associate. Tell them I’m about to complete phase 1 ($2,000-$2,500/month) and give me a call and introduce me to your friend.” He basically told me to lie people. That’s when I realize he lied to me also to sign me up. He says he goes to church every Sunday. So much for being a Christian. How is that going to grant you access to Heaven by lying to people? IBO’s are chasing an illusion. It’s a cult. Seeking happiness by striving for materialism, money, and recognition. Work their way up to the pyramid so others in the bottom can chase a void dream suffering because they are lied into it.
Cayetano says: 6th April, 2012 at 1:59am
I was lied into it. Empty promises. My upline told me I’ll be able to make $500 in 6 months. Instead, I’m going to make $15 my first month. How is attending meetings weekly with a 30 minute drive and 30 minutes back with gas going up, selling expensive products which my friends all told me it’s too hard to sell, and getting brainwashed by motivational CD’s my upline hand me goin to make me achieve my goal? He lied me into it and I realized this when he told me “If you need to sponsor someone, label me as your senior associate. Tell them I’m about to complete phase 1 ($2,000-$2,500/month) and give me a call and introduce me to your friend.” He basically told me to lie people. That’s when I realize he lied to me also to sign me up. He says he goes to church every Sunday. So much for being a Christian. How is that going to grant you access to Heaven by lying to people? IBO’s are chasing an illusion. It’s a cult. Seeking happiness by striving for materialism, money, and recognition. Work their way up to the pyramid so others in the bottom can chase a void dream suffering because they are lied into it.
Wednesday, March 28, 2012
Funny Amway Stories?
"This is my story. One of the women I teach with got involved with Amway. She had asked me to come to meetings many times and I refused (the "I can't tell you about it" is the tip-off). One day she asks me if I can come over to listen to a guy they are training. She says he needs to experience a resistant contact and I fit the bill. I was intrigued.
I go and meet this young man and we begin by me telling him I am not interested. He has a whole presentation on an easel. At one point I was laughing at it and he goes into this part where he asks me if I want to be on welfare. I say of course not and why would he say such a thing. He tells me it is a fact that 75% of Americans will be on welfare before they die. I literally yelled bullshit and asked him to show me where he was getting that info. Guess where? He was counting the collection of Social Security Benefits as "welfare". Needless to say he never got another word in and was backing out the door by the time I was just winding down.
I shared my views on the Social Security program and my guess that he didn't even know how Social Security was administered or how it was conceived. He knew nothing he admitted and this was just what he was told to say.
The teacher and her husband were silent and I left. I wrote them off then and there. As a footnote the wife of the founder of Amway was the head of the Republican Party in Michigan and a strong proponent of school vouchers. She is very powerful in Republican circles." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"This is the scenario. A good friend comes up to me and sez, "Dude! You gotta come to this meeting tonight, there's an awesome business opportunity, but I can't tell you about it." So, I fall for it.
I go to the meeting and it's a hard-sell indoctrination to the 'Amway Lifestyle'. Well, I'm no salesman, but I agree to sell a few things for them. Next thing I know, the 'friend' is pushing me to sell more and more. Actually, "buy" is the right description, because you pay up front for the products. Long story short, I give up on Amway and the friend because it just creeped me out.
Later, another two friends tried to do the same thing to me, invite me to a business meeting, hush-hush, etc. But in these cases, I asked them straight out, "This isn't Amway, is it?" They both lied to me barefaced. As soon as I got to these "sessions" and saw the Amway sign or products on the table, I turned tail and never looked back at the room or the friend again." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I've lost two friends from college, and I can safely say the reason I stopped talking to them is because they joined Amway (or Quickstar, which is essentially Amway.com) and every single damn time I visited with them, they'd try to convince me to join. Under them, of course, so they'd make all that money and retire when they're 30) One of them even showed up at a friend's 30'th birthday party just to work the crowd. You know, looking for potential members (suckers) to join his "little business venture" as he liked to call it. Ask them what they did, and the replied "I'm in business for myself." Ask what kind of business, and they both replied "I create opportunities." Mind you, these friends didn't know each other, and they joined Amway six years apart. But the song-and-dance was nearly identical.
On Edit: They got so annoying that we simply didn't call them when we were having a party or other kind of get-together. Hell, two of my friends didn't even invite him to their wedding because they knew he'd work the crowd there, too."
I go and meet this young man and we begin by me telling him I am not interested. He has a whole presentation on an easel. At one point I was laughing at it and he goes into this part where he asks me if I want to be on welfare. I say of course not and why would he say such a thing. He tells me it is a fact that 75% of Americans will be on welfare before they die. I literally yelled bullshit and asked him to show me where he was getting that info. Guess where? He was counting the collection of Social Security Benefits as "welfare". Needless to say he never got another word in and was backing out the door by the time I was just winding down.
I shared my views on the Social Security program and my guess that he didn't even know how Social Security was administered or how it was conceived. He knew nothing he admitted and this was just what he was told to say.
The teacher and her husband were silent and I left. I wrote them off then and there. As a footnote the wife of the founder of Amway was the head of the Republican Party in Michigan and a strong proponent of school vouchers. She is very powerful in Republican circles." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"This is the scenario. A good friend comes up to me and sez, "Dude! You gotta come to this meeting tonight, there's an awesome business opportunity, but I can't tell you about it." So, I fall for it.
I go to the meeting and it's a hard-sell indoctrination to the 'Amway Lifestyle'. Well, I'm no salesman, but I agree to sell a few things for them. Next thing I know, the 'friend' is pushing me to sell more and more. Actually, "buy" is the right description, because you pay up front for the products. Long story short, I give up on Amway and the friend because it just creeped me out.
Later, another two friends tried to do the same thing to me, invite me to a business meeting, hush-hush, etc. But in these cases, I asked them straight out, "This isn't Amway, is it?" They both lied to me barefaced. As soon as I got to these "sessions" and saw the Amway sign or products on the table, I turned tail and never looked back at the room or the friend again." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I've lost two friends from college, and I can safely say the reason I stopped talking to them is because they joined Amway (or Quickstar, which is essentially Amway.com) and every single damn time I visited with them, they'd try to convince me to join. Under them, of course, so they'd make all that money and retire when they're 30) One of them even showed up at a friend's 30'th birthday party just to work the crowd. You know, looking for potential members (suckers) to join his "little business venture" as he liked to call it. Ask them what they did, and the replied "I'm in business for myself." Ask what kind of business, and they both replied "I create opportunities." Mind you, these friends didn't know each other, and they joined Amway six years apart. But the song-and-dance was nearly identical.
On Edit: They got so annoying that we simply didn't call them when we were having a party or other kind of get-together. Hell, two of my friends didn't even invite him to their wedding because they knew he'd work the crowd there, too."
Sunday, March 4, 2012
Amway Makes Deceptive Claims About Nutrilite?
Read About Amway Deception Here
WASHINGTON—The Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) accused Amway of making deceptive claims for its NUTRILITE line of liquid dietary supplements. CSPI said it would file a class action lawsuit against Amway if it continues to use "unsubstantiated nutrition and health benefits" claims for its Fruits & Vegetables 2GO and Immunity Twist Tubes products.
Labels for NUTRILITE's Fruits & Vegetables 2GO Twist Tubes claim the product represents two servings of fruits and vegetables and the fine print clarifies that a dose, “contains the antioxidant equivalent of 2 servings." However, CSPI said the 10-milliliter tubes do not equal the same health benefits as real fruit or vegetables; fruits and vegetables contain more benefits than just antioxidants, CSPI said. CSPI noted unlike fruits and vegetables, Fruits & Vegetables 2GO does not contain fiber, and real fruits and vegetables have up to 8,000 phytochemicals that may provide health benefits.
CSPI also took issue with Amway's claims for NUTRILITE's Immunity Twist Tubes. The product claims it is an “immune system booster" that will “protect your cells." The immunity claim is unlawful, according to CSPI, because it implies the product will prevent disease. It won’t, says the group.
Also, CSPI noted both product lines contain the artificial sweetener sucralose, despite a print advertisement for “fruits & vegetables 2GO" that claims the product has no artificial ingredients.
“Amway is sending a horrible health message to American consumers when it holds out its Twist Tubes as a short cut to getting the health benefits of real food," said CSPI staff litigator Seema Rattan. “People who want the health benefits of two servings of fruits and vegetables are far better off eating two servings of fruits and vegetables. And no one should be deceived into thinking that these pricey little tubes will prevent them from getting sick."
In a letter to Amway chairman Steve Van Andel, CSPI said Amway’s labeling and advertising for NUTRILITE products violates federal regulations and consumer protection laws in Washington, Massachusetts, Texas, New Jersey and California.
In a company response, Anna Bryce, Amway Public Relations, said, understands the importance of accurate product claims. "For this reason, we have a thorough claims substantiation process, incorporating published nutrition science and regulatory directives. Frankly, we were disappointed when CSPI decided to publish its concerns about the marketing of the NUTRILITE Twist Tube line, without first asking Amway about its product claims. We would have appreciated the opportunity to share the results of our claims substantiation process. We always take such concerns seriously and we are investigating the assertions made by the CSPI."
Labels for NUTRILITE's Fruits & Vegetables 2GO Twist Tubes claim the product represents two servings of fruits and vegetables and the fine print clarifies that a dose, “contains the antioxidant equivalent of 2 servings." However, CSPI said the 10-milliliter tubes do not equal the same health benefits as real fruit or vegetables; fruits and vegetables contain more benefits than just antioxidants, CSPI said. CSPI noted unlike fruits and vegetables, Fruits & Vegetables 2GO does not contain fiber, and real fruits and vegetables have up to 8,000 phytochemicals that may provide health benefits.
CSPI also took issue with Amway's claims for NUTRILITE's Immunity Twist Tubes. The product claims it is an “immune system booster" that will “protect your cells." The immunity claim is unlawful, according to CSPI, because it implies the product will prevent disease. It won’t, says the group.
Also, CSPI noted both product lines contain the artificial sweetener sucralose, despite a print advertisement for “fruits & vegetables 2GO" that claims the product has no artificial ingredients.
“Amway is sending a horrible health message to American consumers when it holds out its Twist Tubes as a short cut to getting the health benefits of real food," said CSPI staff litigator Seema Rattan. “People who want the health benefits of two servings of fruits and vegetables are far better off eating two servings of fruits and vegetables. And no one should be deceived into thinking that these pricey little tubes will prevent them from getting sick."
In a letter to Amway chairman Steve Van Andel, CSPI said Amway’s labeling and advertising for NUTRILITE products violates federal regulations and consumer protection laws in Washington, Massachusetts, Texas, New Jersey and California.
In a company response, Anna Bryce, Amway Public Relations, said, understands the importance of accurate product claims. "For this reason, we have a thorough claims substantiation process, incorporating published nutrition science and regulatory directives. Frankly, we were disappointed when CSPI decided to publish its concerns about the marketing of the NUTRILITE Twist Tube line, without first asking Amway about its product claims. We would have appreciated the opportunity to share the results of our claims substantiation process. We always take such concerns seriously and we are investigating the assertions made by the CSPI."
Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Amway Pays me What I'm Worth?
One of the really stupid things I saw as an IBO, and I believe is still taught today, is that Amway recruiters will talk about people's jobs and how you can only earn what the job is worth, and not what you are worth. Then they tell you to join the Amway business as a means to rectify that situation. But when you take a moment to think about it, it brings up interesting questions.
If your employer doesn't pay you what you think you deserve or what you are worth, you are welcome to offer your services to a higher bidder. If you are unable to find a higher bidder, then you either need to increase what you have to offer, or you have overestimated your value as an employee. But at least as an employee, you have a paycheck that you can depend on, and more than likely, you know when your paydays are. You can put food on the table and pay for your living expenses.
Now you get excited about being a business owner. Are you now paid what you're worth? Or at least, are you on your way to being paid what you are worth? Have you even asked or thought about what you are worth? Most IBOs, not counting the ones who "do little or nothing", end up moving 100 PV and getting approximately $10 back from Amway. If they are on the system, they are likely to have spent over $100 to 250 a month to participate in the functions and other training materials. Are you now "paid what you are worth?". You are in the negative, and even adding some downline is unlikely to change your situation significantly. Is your worth a net loss?
When you spend about $300 to make 100 PV, Amway gets paid. When you earn your 100 PV, Amway will give back about $90 in bonus money. Middle men in your upline take about $80, leaving you with $10. Are you paid what you are worth? Who did the work and who got the lion's share of the reward? Why does uplines get the bonus for your work?
Let's say you worked really hard for a couple of years. You finally reach platinum and you earn $50,000 (before taxes). After taxes and business expenses, let's say you net $25,000. Have you now earned what you are worth? A platinum is in the top one half of 1% of all IBOs and they net maybe $25,000. Are they paid what they are worth? If you can't answer yes to any of these questions, you have to ask yourself if the whole thing is worth it? I'd have to pass.
If your employer doesn't pay you what you think you deserve or what you are worth, you are welcome to offer your services to a higher bidder. If you are unable to find a higher bidder, then you either need to increase what you have to offer, or you have overestimated your value as an employee. But at least as an employee, you have a paycheck that you can depend on, and more than likely, you know when your paydays are. You can put food on the table and pay for your living expenses.
Now you get excited about being a business owner. Are you now paid what you're worth? Or at least, are you on your way to being paid what you are worth? Have you even asked or thought about what you are worth? Most IBOs, not counting the ones who "do little or nothing", end up moving 100 PV and getting approximately $10 back from Amway. If they are on the system, they are likely to have spent over $100 to 250 a month to participate in the functions and other training materials. Are you now "paid what you are worth?". You are in the negative, and even adding some downline is unlikely to change your situation significantly. Is your worth a net loss?
When you spend about $300 to make 100 PV, Amway gets paid. When you earn your 100 PV, Amway will give back about $90 in bonus money. Middle men in your upline take about $80, leaving you with $10. Are you paid what you are worth? Who did the work and who got the lion's share of the reward? Why does uplines get the bonus for your work?
Let's say you worked really hard for a couple of years. You finally reach platinum and you earn $50,000 (before taxes). After taxes and business expenses, let's say you net $25,000. Have you now earned what you are worth? A platinum is in the top one half of 1% of all IBOs and they net maybe $25,000. Are they paid what they are worth? If you can't answer yes to any of these questions, you have to ask yourself if the whole thing is worth it? I'd have to pass.
Friday, February 10, 2012
Is Amway and BWW A Scam?
Very Interesting Testimony:
http://scamadvocates.com/1306-Amway-and-BWW.html
I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this.
The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire.
On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were. He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality.
At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years in fact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there.
They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.
I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to.
I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year.
To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link.
I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given.
Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists.
After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM.
If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.
If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business.
Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.
http://scamadvocates.com/1306-Amway-and-BWW.html
I was at a mall and a couple struck up a conversation about something i was looking to buy at the shop. To be polite i responded and they kept the conversation going and finally they asked my number. I hesitantly gave my number and forgot about the incident. Two weeks later I received a call on a Sunday evening after 7:00 PM from this very same person. After initial chitchat the person mentioned a e-commerce business opportunity which has helped him make money. So we booked a meeting at my home on a Monday evening after work to discuss more on this.
The couple showed up and gave almost no information on the opportunity except for some vague e-commerce concept and invited to an "industry briefing" to be held at a hotel on Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM and I was asked to show up there in business attire.
On Wednesday i went to the hotel where the "industry briefing" was to be held and was forced to sit in the front seat with a paper and pen too to make some notes. The person who spoke was very animated and used some classical phrases undermining how un-fullfilling our jobs were. He showed a business plan and claimed, a person in 3-12 months can start earning 2500+/month and in 3-5 years earn more than 250K per year. At the end he mentioned that they have a product company called 'Amway Global' formerly know as 'Quixtar' and a education system called 'Britt Worldwide" or BWW which work together to make the above claims a reality.
At the end of the seminar i was given a few CD's and a literature material again highlighting what was said in the meeting. Intrigued i asked the person who invited me as to how long he was doing this business and he said that he was doing it for a "couple of years" which i later found out to be 13 years in fact and he was by no means "RICH". He invited me to another meeting on Friday at his place called "PASE - Product and system Education" as a followup. I went to PASE and met a few others who were involved in this business and the meeting had a cult like flavor to it. I did succumb to the pressure to sign up and was asked to sign up then and there.
They asked me to start attending the meetings every week, buy a subscription program for CD's called SOCD which i was told would cost me 7.94$'s per week + taxes making it 8.02$'s, later they also mentioned something called LSO - Leadership Standing Order which would cost me another 8.02$'s per week. I was also asked to sign up for a service called 'CommuniKate' which is a voice messaging servicewhich would cost me 25$'s per month and also asked to open a business website where i could showcase my business based on 3 pre-formated templates which would cost me 15$'s per month.
I confronted as to the validity of all these that i am asked to buy and i was told that all these would make it look like a legitimate business. They also stressed that it is a tax deductible expenses so were all the miles i would drive to these meetings and any contacting meetings i would go to.
I did not know at that time that every Wednesday meeting i would attend would cost me 6$'s per week. I was also asked to buy tickets to "BBS- Business Building Seminar" which would cost me 25$'s per meeting and this is held 4 times a year. Here they introduced something called 'Eagle Program" where every person if he needed to be 'an Eagle' had to buy 300 P.V worth of products from Amway every month else they are 'chicken'. Each P.V was 2.50$'s making it a commitment of 750$'s every month on Products. While doing all these I was yet to see any earnings. They also mentioned about another larger meeting called "conference/ FED/ Leadership" to be held and it would cost me 100$'s. These Large conferences are also held 4 times every year.
To know what happens in the conference you do a bit of search using keywords "Dateline Amway" and look at the video's in the link.
I asked the person who introduced me to this business to provide me with receipts for all the money I had to spend on BWW stuff, like CD's Tickets etc. But i was told that no receipts will be given.
Later I found out that the Big Pins make Tons of money from these tools than Amway itself, and since these were circulated by Hand and money collected through cash and checks without receipt, THIS WAS THE TAX FREE INCOME. REPORTING of this income does not go to IRS, I am sure IRS Does not even know such an income stream exists.
After all weekly meetings, a lots of CD's, compelled to do 300 P.V every month, driving a lot of miles and driving away all my friends and relatives it dawned on me that although Amway Makes good Products and sell them at a Premium and is considered a Legitimate by the Government, its combination with BWW MAKES IT A SCAM.
If you are reading at this account, you are either looking at getting into this business or have a doubt in your mind if your decision was correct to join this business.
If you are OK with all the points i have stated above go ahead and still build the business.
Else Rescue your money, because you will loose a lot of it if you get into this.
Thursday, February 9, 2012
The "New" Average Income?
Source: Amway
The average monthly Gross Income for “active” IBOs was $202.
Approximately 46% of all IBOs were active.
U.S. IBOs were considered “active” in months in 2010 when they attempted to make a retail sale, or presented the Amway IBO Compensation Plan, or received bonus money, or attended an Amway or IBO meeting. “Gross Income” means the amount received from retail sales, minus the cost of goods sold, plus monthly bonuses and cash incentives. It excludes all annual bonuses and cash incentives, and all non-cash awards. There may be significant business expenses, mostly discretionary, that may be greater in relation to income in the first years of operation.
Joe's Commentary: Previously, Amway's average income was $115 a month, but also disregarded IBOs who "did nothing". In this report, it looks like Amway disregarded an additional 20% of IBOs when calculating the figure. Viewers should also note that there might be large pins included who drive the average up.
Based only on PV/BV, and depending on your business structure, you would have to be approximately at the 9% or 12% level (1000 PV) in order to earn a bonus in the neighborhood of $200. Being that most IBOs do little or nothing, and most people cannot sponsor any downline, I would make an educated guess that the vast majority of IBOs will never achieve the average income.
So what would the typical IBO earn? I can't say for sure but taking a look at the "plan" that many IBOs show, I'd say the average rank and file IBO earns about $10 a month from Amway plus any difference between wholesale and retail, if that IBO sells products to actual customers.
The average monthly Gross Income for “active” IBOs was $202.
Approximately 46% of all IBOs were active.
U.S. IBOs were considered “active” in months in 2010 when they attempted to make a retail sale, or presented the Amway IBO Compensation Plan, or received bonus money, or attended an Amway or IBO meeting. “Gross Income” means the amount received from retail sales, minus the cost of goods sold, plus monthly bonuses and cash incentives. It excludes all annual bonuses and cash incentives, and all non-cash awards. There may be significant business expenses, mostly discretionary, that may be greater in relation to income in the first years of operation.
Joe's Commentary: Previously, Amway's average income was $115 a month, but also disregarded IBOs who "did nothing". In this report, it looks like Amway disregarded an additional 20% of IBOs when calculating the figure. Viewers should also note that there might be large pins included who drive the average up.
Based only on PV/BV, and depending on your business structure, you would have to be approximately at the 9% or 12% level (1000 PV) in order to earn a bonus in the neighborhood of $200. Being that most IBOs do little or nothing, and most people cannot sponsor any downline, I would make an educated guess that the vast majority of IBOs will never achieve the average income.
So what would the typical IBO earn? I can't say for sure but taking a look at the "plan" that many IBOs show, I'd say the average rank and file IBO earns about $10 a month from Amway plus any difference between wholesale and retail, if that IBO sells products to actual customers.
Sunday, January 29, 2012
Why Amway IBOs Fail?
It is not a big secret that many IBOs fail in the Amway business opportunity. The retention rate is poor, and frankly, the compensation for IBOs usually won't even cover the monthly cost of the website fees. So uplines should figure out why so many downline fail and then address it instead of advising IBOs to never quit and keep buying more tools. Based on what I experienced, I would have to say my uplines (who are still around today) didn't care about their downline, which is why we received bad advice such as IBOs had to keep paying for standing orders if your downlines quit.
But IBO failure goes beyond this. In order to sustain a business, you need to establish and build a customer base. Amway's own figures suggest that there is about 1 cutomer for every 4 IBOs. Less than 4% of Amway goods are sold to non IBOs. How can any business sustain itself in that manner?
Many IBOs will cite concentration and quality as the reason for Amway's premium prices. But it is apparent that it is primarily IBOs who see things this way. The public more likely sees Amway products as generic with premium prices. Ironically, IBOs seem to shift to the viewpoint of the general public once they stop being IBOs. Seem that IBOs don't mind premium prices when they believe Amway will allow them to retire early and walk the beaches of the world, but when that dream ends, so does product loyalty.
Hard work and effort doesn't necessarily equate success in Amway and I will explain. Say I was selling Iphones for $50. People would be flocking to me to buy one. I would probably run out of the Iphones before I ran out of customers. The price is great and thus the demand exceeds the supply. Now say I was selling regular cell phones and charging $1,000 for a regular run of the mill cell phone. I may sell one, but more likely my only sale will be to myself as a representative of the cell phone company. There would be no demand, only perhaps an artifical demand by the purchase of $1000 cell phones by the cell phone retailers. This is exactly what Amway IBOs, or sales people are experiencing. People in general don't care about the phytonutrients in double x. They see the whopping price and they buy vitamins at Walmart. As a side note, does the inclusion of phyotnutrients in a vitamin drive up the cost that much? I suspect not.
In any case, I believe this is why most IBOs fail. There are too many disadvantages to overcome.
But IBO failure goes beyond this. In order to sustain a business, you need to establish and build a customer base. Amway's own figures suggest that there is about 1 cutomer for every 4 IBOs. Less than 4% of Amway goods are sold to non IBOs. How can any business sustain itself in that manner?
Many IBOs will cite concentration and quality as the reason for Amway's premium prices. But it is apparent that it is primarily IBOs who see things this way. The public more likely sees Amway products as generic with premium prices. Ironically, IBOs seem to shift to the viewpoint of the general public once they stop being IBOs. Seem that IBOs don't mind premium prices when they believe Amway will allow them to retire early and walk the beaches of the world, but when that dream ends, so does product loyalty.
Hard work and effort doesn't necessarily equate success in Amway and I will explain. Say I was selling Iphones for $50. People would be flocking to me to buy one. I would probably run out of the Iphones before I ran out of customers. The price is great and thus the demand exceeds the supply. Now say I was selling regular cell phones and charging $1,000 for a regular run of the mill cell phone. I may sell one, but more likely my only sale will be to myself as a representative of the cell phone company. There would be no demand, only perhaps an artifical demand by the purchase of $1000 cell phones by the cell phone retailers. This is exactly what Amway IBOs, or sales people are experiencing. People in general don't care about the phytonutrients in double x. They see the whopping price and they buy vitamins at Walmart. As a side note, does the inclusion of phyotnutrients in a vitamin drive up the cost that much? I suspect not.
In any case, I believe this is why most IBOs fail. There are too many disadvantages to overcome.
Tuesday, December 27, 2011
More Amway Commentary?
Joanna says:
27th December, 2011 at 3:33 PM
Hi All,
I started reading this blog back in 2009 I think. I was searching the web for information about AMWAY because a close friend of mine had become involved and was pressuring me to join too.
In those past years not one person in her group has made any money from AMWAY. But they have a lost a lot of important things that can’t be counted, friendship and self-respect. My friend was no idiot and she wasn’t lazy. She put everything into it. For nothing!
The only people who make money in AMWAY are the people who sell the CD’s, Books and Functions.
I think this will be my last post here. My friend has quit, she is my friend again and AMWAY is in the past.
I hope that anyone considering of going into this so called “buisness” because someone promised them “financial freedom” think really really hard. If it worked why can’t they say “I am an IBO with AMWAY and I am rich and personally gaurantee that you will rich be too”
Results are all that matters and all I saw were a lot of unhappy people pretending that were doing great when the opposite was true.
27th December, 2011 at 3:33 PM
Hi All,
I started reading this blog back in 2009 I think. I was searching the web for information about AMWAY because a close friend of mine had become involved and was pressuring me to join too.
In those past years not one person in her group has made any money from AMWAY. But they have a lost a lot of important things that can’t be counted, friendship and self-respect. My friend was no idiot and she wasn’t lazy. She put everything into it. For nothing!
The only people who make money in AMWAY are the people who sell the CD’s, Books and Functions.
I think this will be my last post here. My friend has quit, she is my friend again and AMWAY is in the past.
I hope that anyone considering of going into this so called “buisness” because someone promised them “financial freedom” think really really hard. If it worked why can’t they say “I am an IBO with AMWAY and I am rich and personally gaurantee that you will rich be too”
Results are all that matters and all I saw were a lot of unhappy people pretending that were doing great when the opposite was true.
Wednesday, December 7, 2011
Amway Tax testimonial
http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=694
"I met with a prospective tax client a few years ago. Combined, they both made pretty good money but, upon reviewing their prior returns, I noticed they also had a Schedule C that showed $6k-$7k loss year after year (about 7 years in total). Their prior preparer had warned them about the hobby loss rules but they had insisted they had a profit motive because they were eventually going to be making lots of money. I asked if this was Quixtar. They said "yes" and how did I know that. I told them the large losses year after year were a good sign. They didn't seem to get it. While the IRS hadn't noticed their losses (yet), they state had. While, the state wasn't denying the losses, it was asking them to review the hobby loss rules. I told them that they needed to quit this and they seemed offended. I told them where the people at the top really made their money (the tools) and they wouldn't believe me. They claimed that "no one makes money on the tools". They were well brainwashed. They had an canned answer for every comment I made. The cultlike brainwashing had done its job. Needless to say, I lost them as a client but I couldn't let them go on every year like this without saying something and besides, it was approaching April 15th and they were really really disorganized.
Earlier this year, I did talk our receptionist out of Quixtar. She is only 22 and had never heard of Quixtar or even Amway for that matter. I asked her if her sponsor was trying to get her to go to seminar. She said "yes". Apparently, there was one the next weekend that she "had to be at" (according to him) and it was about 500 miles away. He and a few of his prospects were going to roadtrip. She called him and quit. Well, at least I saved one.
The higher ups at Quixtar really don't want their downline to be successful. There is so much money made on those seminars that, if the downlines started actually being successful, they would stop coming."
"I met with a prospective tax client a few years ago. Combined, they both made pretty good money but, upon reviewing their prior returns, I noticed they also had a Schedule C that showed $6k-$7k loss year after year (about 7 years in total). Their prior preparer had warned them about the hobby loss rules but they had insisted they had a profit motive because they were eventually going to be making lots of money. I asked if this was Quixtar. They said "yes" and how did I know that. I told them the large losses year after year were a good sign. They didn't seem to get it. While the IRS hadn't noticed their losses (yet), they state had. While, the state wasn't denying the losses, it was asking them to review the hobby loss rules. I told them that they needed to quit this and they seemed offended. I told them where the people at the top really made their money (the tools) and they wouldn't believe me. They claimed that "no one makes money on the tools". They were well brainwashed. They had an canned answer for every comment I made. The cultlike brainwashing had done its job. Needless to say, I lost them as a client but I couldn't let them go on every year like this without saying something and besides, it was approaching April 15th and they were really really disorganized.
Earlier this year, I did talk our receptionist out of Quixtar. She is only 22 and had never heard of Quixtar or even Amway for that matter. I asked her if her sponsor was trying to get her to go to seminar. She said "yes". Apparently, there was one the next weekend that she "had to be at" (according to him) and it was about 500 miles away. He and a few of his prospects were going to roadtrip. She called him and quit. Well, at least I saved one.
The higher ups at Quixtar really don't want their downline to be successful. There is so much money made on those seminars that, if the downlines started actually being successful, they would stop coming."
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