Thursday, August 18, 2011

Amway, BBB, and Dun & Bradstreet Reports?

From Amway themselves:

Better Business Bureau Membership The Better Business Bureau (BBB) does not permit the use of its name in connection with advertising for products or services. The BBB name and symbol are federally registered service marks and, hence, using its name or symbol without permission may violate federal law.

You should not use the name or seal of the BBB in any printed materials that go to the general public or in advertisements, nor should you represent or imply to the public, either orally or in writing, that Amway or its products or services are endorsed by the BBB.

This includes asking a prospective IBO or registered customer, or other customer to call the BBB as a reference. Such a request is viewed by the BBB as an implied endorsement, which is impermissible.

IBOs who are members of a local BBB may display membership plaques,certificates, or decals in their offices that are issued by the BBB for this purpose. They may also notify their downline IBOs, through a bulletin or letter that goes only to IBOs, of the fact that they are a member of a BBB.

The Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. (CBBB), of which Amway is a member, has provided a fact sheet about Amway to more than 140 local BBBs. Thus, local BBBs that are members of the CBBB are prepared to answer questions from the membership or the general public about Amway.

Local BBBs that are not members of the CBBB can secure such data from the West Michigan BBB, which maintains current information on Amway.

Dun & Bradstreet Reports Dun & Bradstreet financial reports are not to be used in the course of registering new IBOs. This report pertains only to Amway's creditworthiness and is not meant to be used as an investment rating. The business opportunity is not an investment security. All Dun & Bradstreet financial reports are confidential and reserved for the exclusive use of their subscribers. Although you may indicate Amway's soundness when registering others into the business, using Dun & Bradstreet reports for such purpose is prohibited.

Monday, August 15, 2011

Comment About Joecool?

An exchange with IBOFB, followed by the comment?

■Joecool on August 13th, 2011 6:07 pm
IBOFB: “Where, aparent, did anyone ever saying anything about making money without work?”

Any group that promotes the residual income and building it once apparently does so.

I’m fairly certain, based on the UK actions, that NETWORK 21 was doing this.

■ibofb on August 13th, 2011 7:22 pm
Working hard for years and years so that you’ve developed a business that might deliver a level of residual income is “no work”?


As for UK, you clearly didn’t bother following it. The case against N21 was dropped, and if you read the BERR case, and know the peoples whose names are mentioned, you’ll see why. The examples given of people making money? All were network 21. The examples of deception given? None were network 21.

But hey, since when did you let a little thing like facts get in the way of making a claim.

■mike on August 15th, 2011 3:41 am
To ibofightback:

Your being critical of Joecool is way off base and reeks of somebody who is jealous of all the valuable information he has provided to the direct sales income opportunity market in trying to prevent people from falling for a scam like Amway. I’ve been associated with Joe for many years – going back to our days together as posters for the quixtar blog (hosted by Eric Janssen) – and can vouch for this man’s honesty, solid reputability and on target analytical capabilities thru investing his time and effort to a cause – all free of charge – just because he doesn’t want to see others being unfairly taken in by a multi-billion dollar scam like Amway.

IBO, the only thing you need to “fight back” against is your own gullibility and stupidity, not to mention your very arrogant attitude exhibited on this board.

Thursday, August 11, 2011

Amway Recruitment Stories?

Posted July 3, 2011 on

I was talking to a friend who lived in Maryland, he told me that once he was conned into an Amway convention ** a friend of his...the convention was in Richmond Virginia.

This was a three hour ride least...traffic can make it four. The fellow was real ambigous, 'it will be a great show, motivational speakers, singers, music...' He asked if it was some religion, he even asked if it was Amway...his 'friend' said no.

I don't think this is funny, I think it is disgusting to do this to someone.

It was years later I ran into another Amway guy that told me that was taught to him, don't say Amway before the meeting, they call it hiding the ball, you are doing them such a favor with the opportunity it would be a shame for them to miss the presentation.

This is the kind of crap that gives MLM a bad name....and I'm not pleased to know it still occurs.

Monday, August 8, 2011

Amway Offices Raided By Police In India?

BULLETIN: Multiple news organizations in India are reporting that police have conducted raids at nine Amway offices in India amid allegations of cheating and money-chain fraud. Early reports say that a news photographer covering the raid was detained by Amway India staff and that the photographer’s camera and baggage were seized by the staff.

The photographer was released after news organizations protested the reported actions of Amway’s staff, according to IBN Live. At least two police organizations participated in the raid, and an Amway office at East Fort in Thrissur was “sealed” by police, according to the IBN report.

Early reports suggest that a PR disaster that goes beyond the headlines generated by the raid may be shaping up for Amway. Not only was a photographer reportedly prevented by Amway staff from taking pictures of the police action, according to an early report in the Hindustan Times, the staff also claimed that police had “harassed” Amway distributors into “giving complaints against the company.”

Amway India denied any cheating had occurred, according to early reports. The company, according to its website, is a wholly owned subsidiary of U.S.-based Amway Corp. of Ada, Mich.


In reading the comments, it looks like IBOFB has obtained another fake personna "Kevin". LOL

Wednesday, August 3, 2011

An Excellent Amway Explanation

I worked Amway for a while, back in college. I have to say that, while a few do indeed make some good money---at least for a while---off the business, the real money doesn't come from the products sold; the real money comes from the "pyramid": basically, you getting other people in, who in turn get others in... ad nauseum. Basically, it's the business version of a chain letter.

Sure, if you can collect ten dollars from a thousand people, you end up with $10,000. The problem is, in order to do it, you are presenting it as though all of *them* can *also* get ten dollars from a thousand people... and while you're at it, selling them their "kit", promotional tapes and materials, motivational speaker materials, etc. So what happens in the end is that you don't dump in ten bucks, you dump in anywhere from a hundred to a thousand (depending on how fast you get out, and if you go to a "conference" with hotel stay, gas money, etc.)... so right off the bat, you've got to get a ton of people in who will put in at least a hundred bucks each, just so you can recoup your losses... because you only get a small percentage from each of them---your recruiter gets a piece of their money, and his recruiter, and so on, and the company gets their piece, too. So, if you make ten bucks off everyone you recruit, you've gotta recruit ten people just to make back your first $100 YOU put in. Let's say you manage that, and in turn, each of them recruits one person, from whom you get 5 dollars per... so now you've made $150... but in the meantime, you've also put more money into travel, more stuff for your kit, more more more etc.

Very few people have the sheer charisma to recruit hundreds over the course of a year. In the end, the bulk of the money those "diamond" distributors make comes from folks who have tried it, put money and time and dedication and enthusiasm into it... and end up leaving, worse off than they were before.

The higher ups do two things that ultimately trip most people up:

1. They tell you that if you *really* believe in the products, and *truly* work hard, you'll make it big.

2. They tell you that anyone who's washed out simply didn't have the right attitude, the right enthusiasm, they didn't work hard enough, they didn't want it badly enough... etc.

The reality is, most people don't have the charisma, and sooner or later, most people realize that if they're making money, they're making it off lying to other people about *their* chances in the business. For some, that doesn't matter... but for a lot of people, it leaves you feeling like you just conned your grandmother out of her savings bonds... even though you got conned as well.

The promoters make it seem like "believe it, work for it, and it will come" is the magic formula. They play on your dreams and your misfortunes. If believing and trying hard were all there is to it, then a whole lot more of them would be successful. The fatal flaw is in the pyramid/recruiting system itself, because sooner or later, someone has to pay the price... and often it's you, your friends, your family, and whomever else *you* persuaded to join up.

Feel free to show this to your friend. He will likely counter with their prepared idea: my viewpoint comes from sour grapes, because I "didn't make it" with the company. (They think of everything in trying to hang onto recruits for as long as possible.)

Something that *might* reach your friend is this:

Has he ever participated in a school sale: candy, oranges, stationary, wrapping paper---the kind of thing that schools, bands, and clubs do to raise money? Very likely he has. Ask him to think about how many kids actually sold enough to win the bike, or the skateboard, or whatever grand prize was offered. Ask him how many only managed to sell a little bit, and how many had to hit up every relative, neighbor, and parents' coworker they could in order to sell even a decent amount, for just that one promotion. Then ask him what happened when those kids had gone to everyone they knew, their parents knew, their families knew, and every neighborhood they could hit... where did those kids go after that?

Eventually, in that kind of thing, with enough people trying to sell something, you run out of people to ask. What happens then? How do you find more? What happens when, out of every fifty people you ask, maybe only three take you up on it? How many people does he actually know? Most of us only know maybe 10 to 50 people to ask something like this of in the first place... what happens when there's no one left to ask?

There's a reason companies that manufacture products sell them through stores, or through the internet, or catalogs---you don't have to personally know people to sell them your goods, and ALL you're selling them is your goods. People seek out the stores, websites, etc. because they *want* or *need* to buy something, AND because the method of purchase is convenient and requires the least amount of effort on their parts.

Pyramid sales, on the other hand, aren't just selling a product, they're also selling what amounts to a membership---and a lot of your income depends on recruiting new members yourself... which depends on "personal" interaction and sales. Not to mention, it requires a lot of effort on people's parts... even if it's just in delivering product and collecting money from folks who will buy the product, but won't join up.

Let's put it this way: it's lots easier to go buy laundry detergent at the grocery store, than to contact someone, place an order, pay for order, and wait for delivery of order. I go to the store, I get my stuff (along with lots of other things offered), I pay, I go home; done deal. It takes me maybe an hour at best, start to finish. Purchasing through a pyramid distributor takes a whole lot longer... and I might not remember I need detergent until I start doing laundry; so do I wait the week for it to come in, or do I drive up the street and get it at the grocers? Doesn't matter that your soap is better than what's on the shelves---the sheer inconvenience and time involved make it the less-desirable option.