Thursday, June 4, 2009

Amway Global - WalMart Rocks!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wal_mart_jobs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wal_mart_jobs

Thu Jun 4, 12:06 am ET
BENTONVILLE, Ark. – As Wal-Mart Stores Inc. opens about 150 new or expanded stores in the U.S. in 2009, the company expects to hire about 22,000 people for new positions.

Those positions include plenty of cashiers and stock clerks, but the world's largest retailer will also be adding store managers, pharmacists and personnel workers.

Wal-Mart is holding its annual shareholders meeting on Friday, and employees from its stores around the world are spending the week in Bentonville at company headquarters.

Wal-Mart, still the target of criticism from union-backed groups for its pay and benefits, has improved its health insurance coverage and opened it to full- and part-time employees. The company says 94 percent of its employees have health coverage, either through Wal-Mart or another family member.

"At Wal-Mart, we offer competitive pay and benefits and real opportunities for our associates to advance and build careers," Wal-Mart Vice Chairman Eduardo Castro-Wright said. "Job creation is just one way in which we're working hard every day to help people across this country live better."

Other employee benefits include a 401(k) plan, stock purchases and discounts for workers making in-store purchases.

The company has touted its generic drugs program in which Wal-Mart is selling $4 prescriptions for many popular medicines. Competitors, such as Kroger Co., have matched the price for some prescriptions.

"During this difficult economic time, we're proud to be able to create quality jobs for thousands of Americans this year," Castro-Wright said.

Earlier this year, the company shared more than $2 billion with its workers through bonuses, profit sharing and payments into the company 401(k) plan.

Wal-Mart has more than 2.1 million employees in the U.S. and abroad. The company had sales last fiscal year of $401 billion.
___

On the Net:

Wal-Mart corporate site: http://www.walmartstores.com

37 comments:

Awesome!!! said...

Good news man! I have to congratulate WalMart for this headline! But wait a minute, isn't this something we all hear in the daily news? I guess yes and there's nothing spectacular about it. Good but boring! Better yet, how about something that actually helps people to become better as individuals, as husbands, as wives and as business partners? No, I don't hear that in the daily news! And seeing your way of thinking, I don't hear that coming from you either!

Joecool said...

Wow, Awesome, my blog must really be "disturbing you". LOL.

Amway = 8.2 billion in sales with 3million IBOs.

WalMart = 401 billion in sales with 2 million employees. Who's more efficient?

mrmaximum said...

"Better yet, how about something that actually helps people to become better as individuals, as husbands, as wives and as business partners? No, I don't hear that in the daily news!"

You also don't see on many differing websites about how Walmart has destroyed marriages, broken up families and screwed up the fiances of people for years to come.

quixtarisacult said...

Didn't Ron Puryear some years back boast that Amway would surpass sales of 100 Billion in five years, or some such nonsense like that? Of course, that was to a crowd of happy, delusional Quixtar/Amway faithful, who believe anything their cultic leaders say--regardless of how stupid or incredible that is. I guess the gist of what he was saying is that when the Amway tide rises, all ships would rise as well. I guess the Biblical flood never occured.

I like your take on Wal Mart vs Amway efficiency Joecool. It really describes how ineffective and inefficient the Amway distribution system is, all of which Amway independents tie their hopes of success. Power Ball tickets anyone?

Anonymous said...

Wow, Awesome, my blog must really be "disturbing you". LOL.

Amway = 8.2 billion in sales with 3million IBOs.

WalMart = 401 billion in sales with 2 million employees. Who's more efficient?

Joe, You're starting to show some cracks and the facade is slowly starting to crumble. Up till recently you've conducted yourself as a somewhat intelligent yet disgruntled ex IBO. However our recent dialogues on the viability of your Eagle business, lack of awarness that the system income has been a widely publisized part of the plan for nearly 10 years now and your lottery vs Daiamond comments, are indicating that you may infact not be as initially percieved.

This recent comment further raises my own suspicions. Amway does not have 3 million employees, but rather 3 million customers, known as IBO's, and the average IBO earns $115? Walmart on the other hand has 50-60 million or more customers per year visit their stores. Maybe even 100 million.

Now I disagree that Amway helps people become better or husbands and wives become better. That is individual choices that people make based on who they associate with and what they fill their minds with. My life and decisions were heavily influenced by the people I chose to associate with in the business, but the business it's self never really did anything other than pay me and send me on a bunch of great Q12 Trips.

As far as negitive publicity...Google Walmart, and you get; Walmartwatch.com,Wakeupwalmart.com, and hundreds of other sites.

Once again, random off the cuff staements with no substance other than your own versions of "wash, rinse, repeat"

Joecool said...

Anonymous said: This recent comment further raises my own suspicions. Amway does not have 3 million employees, but rather 3 million customers, known as IBO's

Joe said: Amway = 8.2 billion in sales with 3 million IBOs. What was confusing about this?

Anonymous, it's quite clear that WalMart is much more efficient than Amway in distributing their products. Across the board, their products are also much cheaper than Amway for the same or comparable products.

Yes, some people don't like Walmart, but it's because they undercut mom and pop stores, etc. It has nothing to do with being accused of being a scam, a cult or having their prices too high. Nor does Walmart hire employees to trick people into shopping at WalMart.

QIAC, yes, I believe it was a WWDB leader who said Quixtar/Amway would do 100 billion in a few years. They're only off by just over 99 billion.

Levi said...

sure clap for the plantation. they have many positions available. slave positions, come make enough money to barely make it week to week. too much month at the end of thier money. dont quite understand well come to www.therealpyramidscheme.blogspot.com and read my view on what really happend to slavery.

Levi said...

Hey quixtarisacult but you would believe anything your local news would say or better yet your employer. how many employers have laid off, fired, pink slipped, or just plain went bankrupt and left thier would be followers high and dry?
and NOTE before you comment we would go back and forth for hours and hours days and days. no one is trying to stop you from your delusions so have them but dont think you are going to stop us from ours.

Joecool said...

LOL, slave positions? Nearly all of those WalMart employees make more than IBOs. On average, IBOs are welfare cases compared to Walmart staff.

Levi, did you update your blog or is it tex and dave jibber jabbing back and forth?

Levi said...

yes all the over comments from those 2 are gone. tex is an idiot and dave is an instigator. but this is the real point your veiws are your views mine are mine this will never change but my slave point is that plantations have always gotten more out of paying less. Walmart has gotten alot of scrutiny over the years too as far as how they treat thier slaves oh i mean employee's. my point is not much has changed with these Masters and now there are just eager slaves.

Joecool said...

The difference Levi, is that people apply for positions at WalMart. They earn in the neighborhood of $12 an hour. While that may not result in a lavish lifestyle, it is far more than the vast majority of IBOs will ever earn.

rlaurens said...

WalMart employee can survive just by earning WalMart income from day one. How many IBOs can survive just on IBO income? Even after one year? Two years?

Levi said...

neighborhood of 12 an hour? sorry not around here. Walmart employees where i live are picketing and complaining about not making enough money to live on and not getting enough benefits. you live where this is oppisite? then good but I live where it is not so your view does me and the society around me no good.

Joecool said...

Levi, makng minimum wage is still far better than the income made by most IBOs.

Levi said...

The only reason you would make less than minimum wage in Amway is simply cause you cannot sell. I have worked as a car dealer a kirby salesman, and even a restraunt server all positions where you perform and you get paid. In all those areas I made 20 or more per hour. Now Amway is simply only another product in which to sell. And in my opinion those other sales jobs were far more deceptive than what is thought of Amway.

Joecool said...

Levi, I agree that an IBO should be about selling product. The only challenge, is that Amway products in general cost too much to be competetive with big retailers. It doesn't mean selling is not possible, it just makes it that much harder.

Levi said...

I cannot agree on costs because in my household budget i have seen the savings vs walmart and even costco that only matches my prices. Sa8 does more loads for me than tide and i save about 7 dollars doing so. my persue for 10 dollars does what 7 bottles of lysol does. It works for me.

Joecool said...

Levi, why don't you post a thread on your blog with specific price comparisons.

I know Amway cannot compete with WalMart because Amway has to factor in 34% more cost to their goods to fund the IBO bonuses. WalMart doesn't.

Gina said...

"The only reason you would make less than minimum wage in Amway is simply cause you cannot sell. "

Really??? So you are saying that you can't sell? You, not so long ago posted some of your numbers. The math was clear and actually was rounded out in your favor and you still made so far below minimum wage that someone on wellfare would be in a better position.

I don't like Wal-mart, never have, but they employ people who work for them for reasonable pay. Wal-mart employees do not work every waking minute badgering people to shop in their store, they don't worship their managers, they don't listen to stories of how wealthy their managers are nad how they can be wealthy if they just do as they are told, they don't buy "tools" and don't pay to attend weekly meetings that are the same every week....on the contrary...they are paid to attend weekly meetings that are informative and diverse in information. Hmmmm....sounds like Wal-mart is running a real business....I bet they even keep an accurate P/L too!!!! Imagine that!!!

Actually...Wal-mart isn't as bad as I thought....

Levi said...

and Gina we also stated your pedestal position with your silver spoon in your mouth. I have a family that comes first so i take on a job in order to take care of them (barely) while what i would dream for them comes from this business. and as for an update I move approx. 2000 dollars of amway product in roughly only 3 months and have yet to expand in the way i would like through duplication. but I do bring in approx 1000 every 3 months in sales. that to me is extra money. however if you never had to walk in my shoes as i stated months ago then you really are not in my leauge so enjoy your view from your pedestal. At least i dont spit on those less fortunate than me. i work hard with integrity and value and when some lame brained silver spooned brat cares to try and laugh at my efforts to become what i need to for my family like many americans today we dont need your snob comments.

Levi said...

See Joe this is exactly what i mean when i say she trashes Ibo's and the concept in which they stand for she loves to exploit the bad and corrupt in life rather than embrace and encourge the good and honestly your blogs are not far from the same. There is no good supporting comments only the bad and negative so then people who work hard at an honest business like this get looked at like a joke because we dont have the fancy house car or orginze meetings that scam people. well sorry to dissapoint cause the real way to do this buisiness is WORK.

Joecool said...

I don't see it as trashing. It looks pretty truthful and straightforward to me.

Gina said...

"and Gina we also stated your pedestal position with your silver spoon in your mouth."

Really? Have we now? And what position is that? You are making assumptions.

"I have a family that comes first so i take on a job in order to take care of them (barely) while what i would dream for them comes from this business."

Why would you assume I don't have a family that comes first? A little presumptuous, no? You may have been able to get a better job if you just were able to abide by our societies laws and avoid going to prison, but I am sure that is someone else's fault who was more privileged in life right? Maybe if you focused on an education.

"and as for an update I move approx. 2000 dollars of amway product in roughly only 3 months and have yet to expand in the way i would like through duplication. but I do bring in approx 1000 every 3 months in sales. that to me is extra money."

Its only extra money after you pay for all your expenses...reality is still reality and 2+2=4 no matter how rough your life is.
Do you calculate expenses or are you still on the non-existant method of "profit before expenses"? Do you subtract what you use personally or do you pretend that that is a sale and profit as well? You can tell me how much you "sell" but unless you consider your expenses it means nadda.

"however if you never had to walk in my shoes as i stated months ago then you really are not in my league so enjoy your view from your pedestal."

Nope your right...I follow the laws and have no desire to break the laws and go to prison so if that puts me on a pedestal than so-be-it.

"At least i dont spit on those less fortunate than me."

You know nothing about me. I don't spit on anyone less fortunate than me....your assuming.
You clearly have taken a stance of the poor me victim in life. People are responsible for their own behavior.Its not my fault you are a felon and struggle in life...get over it already.

"i work hard with integrity and value"

That remains to be seen. I doubt a felon is capable of doing anything with integrity. Is this the same integrity that you use when you tell them to F***k off or to get off with a P/L? Or is it integrity to blame those more fortunate for your problems?

Why would you assume that you are the only one that works hard? Your not using that integrity to imply that I don't work hard and that my business built itself are you?

" and when some lame brained silver spooned brat cares to try and laugh at my efforts to become what i need to for my family like many americans today we dont need your snob comments."

Ahhh....more integrity...lame brained? Not even close and you know it...hence the need to try and make yourself feel better by insulting me. Ah yes...integrity.

Silver spooned brat? More integrity at work. How would you know if I am a silver spooned brat? Your assuming. No one gave me what I have today. I worked my arse off for it and continue to do so. Are your precious Diamonds silver spooned brats too? I assume you call me that because I am better off in life than you....well, aren't they as well? What's the difference? Sharing the same opinion? Not sharing it doesn't make one a brat.

I am not laughing at your efforts. I am laughing at your inability to grasp basic business operating standards. I am laughing at your willingness to ignore the facts in an effort to make people believe that you are a hard worker. I am laughing at your childish need to blame more fortunate people for your problems in life. I am laughing at your attempts at twisting reality in order to justify not making money at a business opportunity you thought would do otherwise.
At least call a duck a duck please.

The only snob comments are coming from you...blaming others for your mistakes, judging people based on where you assume they are on the economic ladder.

It is so much easier to blame society for ones problems rather than living life with integrity and taking responsibility for your actions....

Levi said...

Hmmmm....sounds like Wal-mart is running a real business....I bet they even keep an accurate P/L too!!!! Imagine that!!!

Actually...Wal-mart isn't as bad as I thought....

This is truthful to you? it's a cocky statment put mildly to point out that she believes Amway is not a real business. what lame brained comment is that? It's an obvious business just one that she does not believe in while many other do. and she puts her p/l crap everywhere as if that will shut her up. somewhere someone could give her the p/l she is looking for but we really don't care since she is biased to the business and it would prove nothing to her.

I don't see it as trashing. It looks pretty truthful and straightforward to me.

If you really dont see it then it's no wonder you got taken to the cleaners and controled by your upline to do as they say. you really must be pretty gullable then.

Gina said...

"This is truthful to you?"

It's very much a truthful statement. Point out the lie that makes it otherwise. What? Nothing? Go figure...

"it's a cocky statment put mildly to point out that she believes Amway is not a real business."

No mildly about it...I say it all the time when I say "supposed business" when I refere to IBO's and their "supposed business"....see how honesty works? Easy isn't it?

" what lame brained comment is that?"

Not lame brained....you need a dictionary and a thesaurus. It is a straight forward honest, truthful but colorful comment. See how more of that honesty wiorks!!!


"It's an obvious business just one that she does not believe in while many other do."

Its not obvious, that's the whole point. Do you even pay attention to what people are writing?

"and she puts her p/l crap everywhere as if that will shut her up." Cause it is a valid point that IBO's can not respond because they are incapable. And it just might shut me up if an IBo wuld finally provide an accurate P/L...but it would need to be accurate.

" somewhere someone could give her the p/l she is looking for but we really don't care since she is biased to the business and it would prove nothing to her."

I ask all the time and still no go. I have even been prospected by an IBO who swore he was a business man and he was legit but when I asked him for one he told me to get bent. Go figure. What would any IBO care if I am biased...the truth is the truth right? If an IBO presents an accurate P/L then there really isn't much to do with being biased is there? The problem is that you IBO's spend so much time trying to twist things and lie because you can't see past your own bias that you figure everyone else is as well.

Gina said...

"If you really dont see it then it's no wonder you got taken to the cleaners and controled by your upline to do as they say. you really must be pretty gullable then."

This must be a comment you made with all that integrity and all those morals huh? You say how we critics make snide comments...but what do you call that? I call it a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Levi said...

Actually it is a retaliatory statement based on honesty and integrity. Also just because I am honest and have integrity does not mean I turn the other cheek. I have the integrity to fight for what I believe and the honesty to tell it how it is.

You enjoy twisting what we say and using it against the business as a whole when society as a whole can be summed up by your snide comments too then. you are nothing to me but a degragatory person who gets her kicks of downing other peoples beliefs. If you really believed in your statements you would be out there running some sort of campaign and be in the spotlight making your voice heard. But alas, you are but a sqeaky little mouse on the steps of the courthouse who will never make a difference like this. this blog is your way of putting on that cape and mask and becoming something you are not. you sit around bashing dreams but helping no one attain dreams or goals. you are a sumbling block for your fellow man/woman. life will deal with you as it will.

Joecool said...

Levi, let's look bottom line. Most IBO's lose money by participating in Amway. The losses are worse if they buy standing order and attend seminars.

Most IBOs do not sell products to people.

What exactly do you have to argue that Amway works?

Gina said...

"Actually it is a retaliatory statement based on honesty and integrity."

Please take the time to look up the work 'integrity'. You should really know what it means before you go throwing it around as much as you do. So, is it integrity that has you call people "brats" or call them "lame brained"? Let me know what part of the definition of integrity that fits into.

"Also just because I am honest and have integrity does not mean I turn the other cheek."

There is nothing honest about you. Felons are not honest people and you flip flop more than a fish out of water. Before claiming to be honest at least try to be honest with yourself.

"I have the integrity to fight for what I believe and the honesty to tell it how it is."

Again please look up the word integrity...and if your integrity runs only so deep that you think you are full of it and utilizing it by defending a supposed business that one day in the future you will quit, then you may want to re-think your use of the word so often.


"You enjoy twisting what we say and using it against the business as a whole when society as a whole can be summed up by your snide comments too then."

This isn't even a coherent sentence...but let me try to respond...
No twisting is involved. There really is no need to twist anything. Point out where the twists are. Clarify the statements critics have twisted. After all, you have integrity and are defending your supposed business honestly right? Then honestly show where the inconsistencies are. The problem is that you can't, cause there are none.

"you are nothing to me but a degragatory person who gets her kicks of downing other peoples beliefs."

So when exactly did business become a belief? Trust me, I get my kicks in a number of ways....pointing out ignorance is not one of them.

"If you really believed in your statements you would be out there running some sort of campaign and be in the spotlight making your voice heard."

Who says I am not? Besides, the internet is a world wide media...what better place to make my voice heard....you hear it don't you?

"But alas, you are but a sqeaky little mouse on the steps of the courthouse who will never make a difference like this."

A difference like what? a difference compared to who? And remember a squeaky little mouse could clear out a room and leave a lasting impression. I don't see your point.

"this blog is your way of putting on that cape and mask and becoming something you are not."

So you would like to believe. Hiding huh? So, where is your P/L? Are you ready to answer the questions you ran from a few months ago? Or you satisfied wearing that cape and mask and trying to become something you clearly are not?

"you sit around bashing dreams but helping no one attain dreams or goals."

No bashing of dreams involved. You just say that to make it easier to ignore the very true and valid information I present about the supposed business. Point out one dream I bashed.

"you are a sumbling block for your fellow man/woman. life will deal with you as it will."

Hmmm...integrity right? I forget, is it integrity that causes someone to make statements such as this one you made for the sole purpose of invoking a heated response and ill feelings? Either Way, it will take something stronger than that to get at me....you spent so much time in prison...I am sure you have much more horrible things to say to another who does not share your views. In fact I am sure you are well practiced....ah the effects of our penal system.

PS what is "sumbling"? Must be a prison term I as a law abiding citizen is unaware of.

Levi said...

you failed at amway. concentrate on that. you dropped the ball. you could not make a profit. you need a little resposiblity. As for me, The products work, they are more efficient, cost less, and perform outstanding (sure it's a biased opinion call it what you need to) and the only reason I am not making a bunch of money to shut you up is i was comfortable as a customer for a while here and only now am I begining to expand my volume through other households who feel as I do. Remember you failed where I did not.

Anonymous said...

Amway Global= 8.2 billion in sales with 12,000 employees

WalMart= 401 billion in sales with 2 million employees

WalMart makes 200,000 (approximately) per employee

Amway Global makes 683,000 (approximately) per employee

Further, it is not really fair to compare a retailer with a manufacturer/broker.

According to the customer complaint reports of the Better Business Bureau:

Amway Global: 2 complaints in last 36 months (at all locations)
Walmart: 203 complaints in the last 36 months (at the headquarters location)
Walmart.com: 636 complaints in the last 36 months

Joecool said...

Anon, the sales to employees comparison just proved my point. I believ Amway charges three times too much for their goods. If you want to compare complaints, Amway has how many customers? Less than 4% of Amway goods are sold to non IBOs. Amway reported that there is 1 customer for every 4 IBOs, whereas Walmart has probably millions or billions of customers worldwide.

What are complaints against Walmart? Slippery floors? Rude salesperson?

What are complaints against Amway? Pyramid scam? Also, it is a two pronged concept. Since the tools scammers are also a part of the Amway business, what complaints exist about those? Corruption, mafia like, cult like, downline abuse? What else?

Gina said...

"you failed at amway. concentrate on that. you dropped the ball. you could not make a profit. you need a little resposiblity."

If that is directed to me then you are so far off its not even funny. At least take the time to get all your facts about those you are trying to insult.

" As for me, The products work, they are more efficient, cost less, and perform outstanding"


Says the IBO just like the other IBO and the other and the other and the other and the other and the other. Where are the retail customers that can attest to the same thing? Why is it every IBO says this and just as many after they quit don't share that view any longer?

"and the only reason I am not making a bunch of money to shut you up is i was comfortable as a customer for a while here and only now am I beginning to expand my volume through other households who feel as I do."

Right....this is what is known as a justification. Your upline must be proud to know you are doing exactly as they want you to....blame yourself not them, the plan, the Corp, nor the products.

"Remember you failed where I did not."

Wow, you can't even be consistent within your own posts...you just got done saying how your not making a "bunch of money"...you may want to look up the definition of the word success....cause assuming your not making much money and not losing money isn't success....KNOWING that you are making money and not losing money would be a different story. But how will an IBO know if they don't keep track of what they need to? Success is not assumed...

Anonymous said...

2 Complaints against Amway Global consisted of 1 Billing or Collection Issue and 1 Guarantee or Warranty Issues
1 Complaint against Network 21 (the "tools" side of Amway) which was a Sales Practice Issue.

The complaints against Walmart consisted of 20 Billing or Collection Issues, 16 Guarantee or Warranty Issues, 16 Sales Practice Issues etc. (16 Advertising Issues
20 Billing or Collection Issues
33 Customer Service Issues
7 Delivery Issues
16 Guarantee or Warranty Issues
25 Product Issues
50 Refund or Exchange Issues
6 Repair Issues
16 Sales Practice Issues
14 Service Issues)

The complaints against Walmart.com consisted of 38 Billing or Collection Issues, 10 Guarantee or Warranty Issues, 72 Sales Practice Issues etc. (14 Issues Not Defined
94 Advertising Issues
38 Billing or Collection Issues
Including: unauthorized bank debits and unauthorized credit card charges
16 Contract Issues
62 Customer Service Issues
136 Delivery Issues
10 Guarantee or Warranty Issues
33 Product Issues
116 Refund or Exchange Issues
1 Repair Issues
72 Sales Practice Issues
44 Service Issues)

Complete lists and details can be found on the Better Business Bureau website.

Joecool said...

So you list the complaints against WalMart? Great! So why does Walmart sales make Amway look like a joke?

And I will say this again. IBOs are not Amway!

Anonymous said...

"So you list the complaints against WalMart?"

I listed them because you asked.

("What are complaints against Walmart? Slippery floors? Rude salesperson?

What are complaints against Amway? Pyramid scam?")

"Great! So why does Walmart sales make Amway look like a joke?"

Walmart sales make A LOT of companies look like jokes.

Exxon Mobil Estimated Annual Sales: $377,635,000,000

Walmart Estimated Annual Sales: $348,650,000,000

Chevron Corporation Estimated Annual Sales: $210,118,000,000

General Motors Estimated Annual Sales: $207,349,000,000

Conocophillips Estimated Annual Sales: $188,523,000,000

Take note that 3 of the top 5 companies(by annual sales) are petroleum based.

Bigger does not mean better.
Take cancer for example. I would much rather have a small tumor than a big one.

Costco is Walmart's biggest competitor in the retail sales category:

Costco Estimated Annual Sales: $64,400,155,000

Kmart Estimated Annual Sales: $18,647,000,000

JC Penny Estimated Annual Sales: $9,866,700,000

JC Penny's sales numbers are pretty close to Amway Global's sales numbers.

Data taken from the Company Profile section of http://www.allbusiness.com/

In 2008, the GM vehicle delivery numbers for Chevrolet were 167,202 and for HUMMER the numbers were 1,843. That doesn't necessarily mean that one is better or worse than the other.

In short size isn't everything.

And I have to wonder, in an absolute sense, when is 8 billion dollars ever a joke?

"And I will say this again. IBOs are not Amway!"

I never disputed that fact.

Gina said...

"Walmart sales make A LOT of companies look like jokes."

Ummm aside from the 16 other privately held businesses that are above Amway on Forbes list...the same list that Amway keeps moving down on. And shall we include the sales figures for the publicaly held companies?

And it would be impressive if those sales were to retail customers beyond 3%....until then, IBO's are just proving to be loyal shee-ple.