I had a good chuckle today when an Amway/WWDB apologist claims that I am wrong, and my experience is invalid because my experience is "outdated". That I need to see current issues and things to understand what is really going on. To my knowledge, the only major difference since I left the business 10-11 years ago is the online ordering and corporate issuance of bonuses. Sure there are new products and some other things, but the foundation of what I perceive to be wrong with the opportunity still exists. Many of the leaders that taught bad business 10 years ago are still teaching. Some of the teaching for sure has changed, but not necessarily for the better. There's plenty of reason to believe that the same bad business practices taught long ago still exists. Most IBOs still lose money if they follow the system. Many IBOs are still under the impression that buying from youself is a business activity. Many still believe the system will deliver them to untold wealth. Some and possibly manyIBOs still put down jobs and people who are not in the business. A HUGE Amway supporter (IBOFB) bemoans accreditation as a sad joke (?). What has changed?
But I leave this as food for thought when supporters want to cite outdated information.
From thisbiznow:
Average IBO income - from 2001 and based on a survey done in 2000.
Average income of higher pins - from 2005 (It is the eve of 2009).
If supporters will cry foul about outdated experiences, maybe they should cry foul about outdated information as well?
Wednesday, December 31, 2008
Monday, December 29, 2008
Amway Global - Another Testimony
http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/forum/f2-general-business/question-about-quixtar-26329.html
Quixtar/Amway
I was raised in Amway/Quixtar (parents are Diamonds) and I myself became an IBO 13 years ago. I understand this business and how it works. So you know, I'm writing this with the intentions of never promoting Quixtar/Amway ever again. (Quixtar will be fading away and called Amway offically again in 2009)First a lot of things have changed in the past 3-5 years which are not for the better of the IBOs. IBOs have been trying to get prices reduced for years but the corporation has refused. The prices are usually 4-5X the price you would pay at Walmart. Because the prices are so high getting customers is extremely difficult. I personally never built a business over 2000 PV (points on the performance scale) and that is not for a lack of trying. I have placed dozons of people personally into this business and each year I watched the 99% of them not renew and their main complaint was they couldn't afford to buy the product or get others to buy them.
Now the products are extremely good, I don't disagree with that, but still don't justify the cost.Secondly, as mentioned above Quixtar is changing its name back to Amway. This change was voted against by the IBOAI (board represting the IBOs) because it was felt to be a negative move which would hurt the IBOs businesses. Since the beginning Amway/Quixtar has stated that no changes would be made without the approval of the IBOAI but this past year they decided to make the change even though the board was 100% against it. We have lost all hope in the IBOAI to keep our businesses safe. A/Q can and will change the rules whenever and however they see fit....NOT a good thing.Third, the government in the UK is trying to completely shut Amway down because of their pricing and structure. Because prices are so high Amway has become an internal consumption pyramid which is illegal. The same fate will probably happen here if the UK gov't succeeds.
There is a lot of information on the web about everything I stated here and I highly recommend reading it before making any decisions. I wish I could honestly say that Quixtar was a good company, it use to be, but I can no longer with good conscience say that it is.
Even my parents who have been in the business for 30+ years are no longer promoting it because it has changed so much since they started.Do a google search for "iborebellion" or "quixtar lost my cents" to find websites of current and former IBOs sharing their experience and comparing prices....should give you a good idea about Q/A and what you are thinking of entering.Its a sad time for all IBOs and hopefully things will be corrected but it will be at a major cost to everyones income and the faith and trust in the company has been lost. I recommend to everyone just to sit out on this business opportunity until things shake out. Look at it in 2-3 years if it is still around then.Something you may also want to do is create a couple of Google Alerts for Amway and Quixtar. Watch what comes into your email inbox for a couple of weeks and make a decision after that.
Quixtar/Amway
I was raised in Amway/Quixtar (parents are Diamonds) and I myself became an IBO 13 years ago. I understand this business and how it works. So you know, I'm writing this with the intentions of never promoting Quixtar/Amway ever again. (Quixtar will be fading away and called Amway offically again in 2009)First a lot of things have changed in the past 3-5 years which are not for the better of the IBOs. IBOs have been trying to get prices reduced for years but the corporation has refused. The prices are usually 4-5X the price you would pay at Walmart. Because the prices are so high getting customers is extremely difficult. I personally never built a business over 2000 PV (points on the performance scale) and that is not for a lack of trying. I have placed dozons of people personally into this business and each year I watched the 99% of them not renew and their main complaint was they couldn't afford to buy the product or get others to buy them.
Now the products are extremely good, I don't disagree with that, but still don't justify the cost.Secondly, as mentioned above Quixtar is changing its name back to Amway. This change was voted against by the IBOAI (board represting the IBOs) because it was felt to be a negative move which would hurt the IBOs businesses. Since the beginning Amway/Quixtar has stated that no changes would be made without the approval of the IBOAI but this past year they decided to make the change even though the board was 100% against it. We have lost all hope in the IBOAI to keep our businesses safe. A/Q can and will change the rules whenever and however they see fit....NOT a good thing.Third, the government in the UK is trying to completely shut Amway down because of their pricing and structure. Because prices are so high Amway has become an internal consumption pyramid which is illegal. The same fate will probably happen here if the UK gov't succeeds.
There is a lot of information on the web about everything I stated here and I highly recommend reading it before making any decisions. I wish I could honestly say that Quixtar was a good company, it use to be, but I can no longer with good conscience say that it is.
Even my parents who have been in the business for 30+ years are no longer promoting it because it has changed so much since they started.Do a google search for "iborebellion" or "quixtar lost my cents" to find websites of current and former IBOs sharing their experience and comparing prices....should give you a good idea about Q/A and what you are thinking of entering.Its a sad time for all IBOs and hopefully things will be corrected but it will be at a major cost to everyones income and the faith and trust in the company has been lost. I recommend to everyone just to sit out on this business opportunity until things shake out. Look at it in 2-3 years if it is still around then.Something you may also want to do is create a couple of Google Alerts for Amway and Quixtar. Watch what comes into your email inbox for a couple of weeks and make a decision after that.
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to all bloggers, critics, supporters, and amway global employees who monitor this blog. I wish you and your families good health, good food, and good fortune over the holidays.
Joecool
Joecool
Monday, December 15, 2008
Attend Those Functions!
When I was an IBO some years back, the weekend functions costed $24. It was actually 4 sessions that costed $6 each. Major functions ranged from $60 to $250. My upline said it was a bargain as the speakers are sought after all over the world. It was a great bargain and IBOs
should be thankful for such a deal.
Well, here in Hawaii, you can attend a non-Amway motivational seminar for $4.95, or $19 for your entire office. Speakers include Robert Schuler and Zig Ziglar, among others. Makes you wonder how much the diamonds make charging a hundred bucks or more for their seminars.
I'm sure this seminar isn't being run at a loss.
http://www.getmotivated.com/city.aspx?a=5032 Or call: 1-800-318-3149
Food for thought folks.
should be thankful for such a deal.
Well, here in Hawaii, you can attend a non-Amway motivational seminar for $4.95, or $19 for your entire office. Speakers include Robert Schuler and Zig Ziglar, among others. Makes you wonder how much the diamonds make charging a hundred bucks or more for their seminars.
I'm sure this seminar isn't being run at a loss.
http://www.getmotivated.com/city.aspx?a=5032 Or call: 1-800-318-3149
Food for thought folks.
Tuesday, December 9, 2008
How Many Diamonds Are There In Quixtar?
How many diamonds are there in Quixtar? I don't know. Nobody knows for sure except Quixtar and Quixtar isn't telling. I once emailed Quixtar to ask this question and I was told to ask the person who invited me to a meeting. IBOFightback recently wrote a post on his propaganda blog decrying Quixtar/Amway critics for creating an "echo chamber" effect where people searching for information will be mislead about how many diamonds there are in Quixtar. Of course, he doesn't criticize the corporation for not publishing this valuable and controversial piece of information.
On one of the Quixtar PR blogs, I posed a question (over a year ago) and Anna Bryce of Quixtar stated that there were 160 Diamondships in attendance to 2006 Diamond club. Assuming there were some absentees, there might be a few more than 160 Diamonds in Quixtar. 160+ Diamondships in nearly 50 years of existence is not much to get excited about. Also, in Quixtar, a diamond is not forever. Diamonds fall out of qualification, probably as often as a new one emerges.
IBOFightback talks about the thousands of people who may have achieved success thru this opportunity. He doesn't mention however, the MILLIONS who may have been harmed by participating in this wonderful opportunity, albeit possibly from a motivational organization and not necessarily from Amway, Quixtar or Alticor. Although the motivational organizations have mostly been allowed to operate freely to cause this harm, and blemish the corporation's reputation.
The point being missed here is that the more diamonds there are, it is likely that there will be more and more people who lose money. Nearly all diamonds that I know of hard sell their tapes, seminars and other support materials. Thus the more diamonds there are, the more downline, and probably more people on the system. The vast majority of people on the system lose money because of the system expenses. A lack of sales to non IBOs almost guarantees a loss for IBOs because the only way to increase volume without sales is to increase downline who then suffer the losses for you.
So does anyone really care about how many diamonds there are? If it's important enough, maybe Quixtar will publish it. Until then, the likes of IBOfightback and others are only guessing based on some of the numbers that Quixtar does reveal. The problem is the definition of an active IBO is from 2001, the average income is from another year, average diamond income is from 2005, yadda yadda yadda. Keep guessing, I'm done.
On one of the Quixtar PR blogs, I posed a question (over a year ago) and Anna Bryce of Quixtar stated that there were 160 Diamondships in attendance to 2006 Diamond club. Assuming there were some absentees, there might be a few more than 160 Diamonds in Quixtar. 160+ Diamondships in nearly 50 years of existence is not much to get excited about. Also, in Quixtar, a diamond is not forever. Diamonds fall out of qualification, probably as often as a new one emerges.
IBOFightback talks about the thousands of people who may have achieved success thru this opportunity. He doesn't mention however, the MILLIONS who may have been harmed by participating in this wonderful opportunity, albeit possibly from a motivational organization and not necessarily from Amway, Quixtar or Alticor. Although the motivational organizations have mostly been allowed to operate freely to cause this harm, and blemish the corporation's reputation.
The point being missed here is that the more diamonds there are, it is likely that there will be more and more people who lose money. Nearly all diamonds that I know of hard sell their tapes, seminars and other support materials. Thus the more diamonds there are, the more downline, and probably more people on the system. The vast majority of people on the system lose money because of the system expenses. A lack of sales to non IBOs almost guarantees a loss for IBOs because the only way to increase volume without sales is to increase downline who then suffer the losses for you.
So does anyone really care about how many diamonds there are? If it's important enough, maybe Quixtar will publish it. Until then, the likes of IBOfightback and others are only guessing based on some of the numbers that Quixtar does reveal. The problem is the definition of an active IBO is from 2001, the average income is from another year, average diamond income is from 2005, yadda yadda yadda. Keep guessing, I'm done.
Friday, December 5, 2008
Amway Global Commercials
Over the last several months, I 've seen a handful of Amway Global commercials and they are good commercials, and the presentation looks professional. One commercial talks about Nutrilite and the camera pans over the various vitamins and other Nutrilite product line. It then has a 1-800 number to call if you want to purchase the products. Another commercial also has a contact number if you wish to becme an IBO.
My question for the reading audience is this: What is the real purpose of the commercials? Is it truly to expose name recognition of the products? It is to allow propects to call and gain information about becoming an IBO? Or is the commercial simply a PR plug so IBOs can claim credibility due to the airtime?
I wonder how many calls Amway Global received after the commercials aired?
My question for the reading audience is this: What is the real purpose of the commercials? Is it truly to expose name recognition of the products? It is to allow propects to call and gain information about becoming an IBO? Or is the commercial simply a PR plug so IBOs can claim credibility due to the airtime?
I wonder how many calls Amway Global received after the commercials aired?
Monday, December 1, 2008
From Thisbiznow.com:
"Financial rewards in the Quixtar business are based on effort, time and talent. Individual success varies, but Quixtar wants you to know the average earnings. "
The key word in this statement that I haven't really heard discussed often is "talent". Now talent in relation to Quixtar is not defined, but if it is a fact that talent is a factor in your success or failure in quixtar, then it is not true that "anyone can do it". Even if you have the talent, then you also need to have the time and put in the effort. While it is probably true of any business, (effort, time and talent) why are so few IBOs able to earn any kind of significant income through the quixtar opportunity? ($115 a month average income of active IBOs)
"Financial rewards in the Quixtar business are based on effort, time and talent. Individual success varies, but Quixtar wants you to know the average earnings. "
The key word in this statement that I haven't really heard discussed often is "talent". Now talent in relation to Quixtar is not defined, but if it is a fact that talent is a factor in your success or failure in quixtar, then it is not true that "anyone can do it". Even if you have the talent, then you also need to have the time and put in the effort. While it is probably true of any business, (effort, time and talent) why are so few IBOs able to earn any kind of significant income through the quixtar opportunity? ($115 a month average income of active IBOs)
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
Amway Global Opportunity Blog - Significant Business Expenses?
From the Quixtar Website (Thisbiznow) (Emphasis is mine)
"There may be significant business expenses, mostly discretionary, that may be greater in relation to income in the first year of operation"
So mostly discretionary. I am guessing that some of these exenses means the cost of a website and the discretionary expenses would be tapes, books, cds and seminars. These discretionary expenses vary from group to group. I have heard of expenses below $100 monthly, and I have heard of IBOs who exceeded monthly expenses in excess of $500 a month.
When you first start your business, your volume is likely to be smaller as you need to build volume by selling products and by possibly sponsoring others into the business. IBOs need to seriously consider whether or not to participate in the optional/discretionary motivational systems. Most IBOs never sponsor another IBO and many IBOs have difficulty in selling products. If you experience this problem right from the start, you are unlikely to experience significant success in this business and you should analyze your business and your efforts to determine if investing more money into a struggling business is the way to increase your volume.
The reason why this is important, is because investing in the motivational/teaching system is investing in non productive, non income producing materials/activities which will also consume your time. Reading books, attending meetings and functions, listening to tapes do not increase sales directly and uses up your valuable resources (time and money) that could have been spent finding more customers.
Unless Amway has changed their rules, it is my understanding that your sponsor is obligated to train and motivate you. Why pay for something that should be provided to you by your sponsor?
"There may be significant business expenses, mostly discretionary, that may be greater in relation to income in the first year of operation"
So mostly discretionary. I am guessing that some of these exenses means the cost of a website and the discretionary expenses would be tapes, books, cds and seminars. These discretionary expenses vary from group to group. I have heard of expenses below $100 monthly, and I have heard of IBOs who exceeded monthly expenses in excess of $500 a month.
When you first start your business, your volume is likely to be smaller as you need to build volume by selling products and by possibly sponsoring others into the business. IBOs need to seriously consider whether or not to participate in the optional/discretionary motivational systems. Most IBOs never sponsor another IBO and many IBOs have difficulty in selling products. If you experience this problem right from the start, you are unlikely to experience significant success in this business and you should analyze your business and your efforts to determine if investing more money into a struggling business is the way to increase your volume.
The reason why this is important, is because investing in the motivational/teaching system is investing in non productive, non income producing materials/activities which will also consume your time. Reading books, attending meetings and functions, listening to tapes do not increase sales directly and uses up your valuable resources (time and money) that could have been spent finding more customers.
Unless Amway has changed their rules, it is my understanding that your sponsor is obligated to train and motivate you. Why pay for something that should be provided to you by your sponsor?
Monday, November 24, 2008
Amway Global Opportunity
Another tidbit that is presented by the corporation: 1 in 5 IBOs are able to sponsor someone.
If only 1 in 5 IBOs can sponsor another IBO, you can imagine how difficult it would be to build an organization. Keep in mind that over half of all IBOs quit within a year. You need to sponsor in order to atain the higher pin levels, but since sponsoring is such a daunting task, it is easy to conclude that building and maintaining a group is next to impossible. I remember seeing many crossline who faithfully purchased products and attended all the functions, and never sponsored a single downline. Most of these folks seemed to come and go during my tenure in the business.
Are you a new or struggling IBO? If you cannot sponsor people regularly, it will be virtually impossible for you to succeed in this business, unless you are exceptional at selling products.
If only 1 in 5 IBOs can sponsor another IBO, you can imagine how difficult it would be to build an organization. Keep in mind that over half of all IBOs quit within a year. You need to sponsor in order to atain the higher pin levels, but since sponsoring is such a daunting task, it is easy to conclude that building and maintaining a group is next to impossible. I remember seeing many crossline who faithfully purchased products and attended all the functions, and never sponsored a single downline. Most of these folks seemed to come and go during my tenure in the business.
Are you a new or struggling IBO? If you cannot sponsor people regularly, it will be virtually impossible for you to succeed in this business, unless you are exceptional at selling products.
Friday, November 21, 2008
Amway Global - By The Numbers
This came from the Quixtar Website:
"The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $47,472.*"
A Q12 platinum earns over $47,000. That is a nice income for a "part time" side business. However, I believe that the majority of platinums are not Q12. Q 12 would mean that an IBO maintains group volume of 7500 PV or more, in all twelve months in Quixtar's fiscal year.
While people have achieved this level, it is a daunting task when broken down. If 100 PV is approximately equal to $300, that means your business would have grossed well over two hundred thousand dollars which would only allow you to gross $47,472? In many conventional businesses which includes rent and other operating costs, a business with that kind of volume in a year business would "net" the owner more than what a platinum earns, if run properly.
Also noteworthy. If this Q12 platinum is hardcore and is fully committed to tapes and seminars and other optional meetings and out of state travel (functions/board plans), this platinum may very well end up with less than $20,000 net after operating and other expenses are taken into consideration.
Is this truly the opportunity you are shooting for? My former sponsor went platinum (not Q12) and due to retention issues, has teeter tottered between 7500 and 4000 PV for the last 14 years. He has never broken a silver producer and has probably netted very little for all these years of effort. Are you interested in making a profit, or chasing a pin and some recognition?
"The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $47,472.*"
A Q12 platinum earns over $47,000. That is a nice income for a "part time" side business. However, I believe that the majority of platinums are not Q12. Q 12 would mean that an IBO maintains group volume of 7500 PV or more, in all twelve months in Quixtar's fiscal year.
While people have achieved this level, it is a daunting task when broken down. If 100 PV is approximately equal to $300, that means your business would have grossed well over two hundred thousand dollars which would only allow you to gross $47,472? In many conventional businesses which includes rent and other operating costs, a business with that kind of volume in a year business would "net" the owner more than what a platinum earns, if run properly.
Also noteworthy. If this Q12 platinum is hardcore and is fully committed to tapes and seminars and other optional meetings and out of state travel (functions/board plans), this platinum may very well end up with less than $20,000 net after operating and other expenses are taken into consideration.
Is this truly the opportunity you are shooting for? My former sponsor went platinum (not Q12) and due to retention issues, has teeter tottered between 7500 and 4000 PV for the last 14 years. He has never broken a silver producer and has probably netted very little for all these years of effort. Are you interested in making a profit, or chasing a pin and some recognition?
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Amway Global - Joecool's Visitors
An interesting trend I have noticed recently is the increasing number of hits I am receiving on my two (2) blogs from international sites. Seems like a lot of hits are coming from India, Canada, the UK, and Australia. Many of these sites had multiple hits. Anyway, here is a compiled list of countries who visited Joecool's blogs. It was quite a learning experience as I had never heard of some of these international cities.
Istanbul Turkey
Lipka Poland
Sydney Australia
Beijing China
Bankok Thailand
Sherwood Park Canada
Jhamshedpur, India
Scarborough, Canada
South Wales Australia
Brisbane Australia
Aizwal India
Boissevain Canada
Stockholm Sweden (IBOFightback)
Pune, India
Cape Town South Africa
Auckland New Zealand
Watford UK
Dawson Creek British Columbia
Santa Domingo – Domincan Republic
Brandon Canada
Kingston Australia
Seymour Australia
Montreal Canada
Edmonton Canada
Red Deer Canada
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Madras India
Mandurah Western Australia
Charlestown St Kitts & Nevis
Bedford UK
London UK
Kootingal Australia
Smithville Canada
Munich Germany
Bettria Sweden
Bristol UK
Adelaide Australia
Gatineau Canada
Burnaby Canada
Sampaloc Philllipines
Chesterfield UK
Madrid Spain
Bury UK
Regina Canada
Copenhagen Denmark
Paris France
Durban South Africa
Birmingham England
Istanbul Turkey
Lipka Poland
Sydney Australia
Beijing China
Bankok Thailand
Sherwood Park Canada
Jhamshedpur, India
Scarborough, Canada
South Wales Australia
Brisbane Australia
Aizwal India
Boissevain Canada
Stockholm Sweden (IBOFightback)
Pune, India
Cape Town South Africa
Auckland New Zealand
Watford UK
Dawson Creek British Columbia
Santa Domingo – Domincan Republic
Brandon Canada
Kingston Australia
Seymour Australia
Montreal Canada
Edmonton Canada
Red Deer Canada
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Madras India
Mandurah Western Australia
Charlestown St Kitts & Nevis
Bedford UK
London UK
Kootingal Australia
Smithville Canada
Munich Germany
Bettria Sweden
Bristol UK
Adelaide Australia
Gatineau Canada
Burnaby Canada
Sampaloc Philllipines
Chesterfield UK
Madrid Spain
Bury UK
Regina Canada
Copenhagen Denmark
Paris France
Durban South Africa
Birmingham England
Monday, November 17, 2008
Critics vs. Supporters
There is a big division between critics and supporters in the Amway business. I believe that critics play an important role in providing information to the information seeking public. Some promoters of the opportunity are less than honest about what they present and in fact, discourage prospects from seeking more information. It is true that a "rogue" critic who may just be mad at the world may not provide that factual information, but many critics are simply sharing their experiences so others may see the hazards and problems that plagued their experience, and prospects can look out and possibly avoid these same pitfalls.
There are a few supporters, in particular, one who has made it his personal mission to defend Amway, apparently pro bono. But these supporters, are they truly helping the cause? These Amway defenders set up google alerts so they can be notified each and everytime someone writes something about Amway or Quixtar. When there's new information posted, they drop into the blog or forum to quickly "clear up" what they consider to be misconceptions about Amway. In some instances, these so called defenders such as IBOFightback or Bridgett, drop into a conversation unwanted. They drop into an established online community to set them straight about Amway. Instead of setting anyone straight, they simply tick off a host of online community members who are now 100% sour on Amway. Here's a great example:
http://www.fanhome.com/forums/fanhome-bbq/17972-quixtar-amway.html
It is my opinion that the likes of IBOFightback and Bridgett do more harm to the Amway name than good. Imagine you are sitting at a bar with some buddies and someone brings up Amway into the discussion. Some guy across the room comes running over to your gang and says you are all obviously wrong and misled about Amway. Do you invite the guy over to talk with you or punch him in the nose? I'm not saying they don't have a right to publish their own blogs and stories, but to drop into an established forum and trying to "set them straight" is like an unwanted house guest. Thoughts?
There are a few supporters, in particular, one who has made it his personal mission to defend Amway, apparently pro bono. But these supporters, are they truly helping the cause? These Amway defenders set up google alerts so they can be notified each and everytime someone writes something about Amway or Quixtar. When there's new information posted, they drop into the blog or forum to quickly "clear up" what they consider to be misconceptions about Amway. In some instances, these so called defenders such as IBOFightback or Bridgett, drop into a conversation unwanted. They drop into an established online community to set them straight about Amway. Instead of setting anyone straight, they simply tick off a host of online community members who are now 100% sour on Amway. Here's a great example:
http://www.fanhome.com/forums/fanhome-bbq/17972-quixtar-amway.html
It is my opinion that the likes of IBOFightback and Bridgett do more harm to the Amway name than good. Imagine you are sitting at a bar with some buddies and someone brings up Amway into the discussion. Some guy across the room comes running over to your gang and says you are all obviously wrong and misled about Amway. Do you invite the guy over to talk with you or punch him in the nose? I'm not saying they don't have a right to publish their own blogs and stories, but to drop into an established forum and trying to "set them straight" is like an unwanted house guest. Thoughts?
Friday, November 14, 2008
Amway's Facts
These numbers were taken from the Amway/Quixtar website. I believe the numbers speak for themselves.
The Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” IBOs was $115
The Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” IBOs was $115
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